Doctor Who "The Time of the Doctor" 12/25/13

Discussion in 'Now Playing - TV Show Talk' started by JohnB1000, Dec 25, 2013.

  1. BitbyBlit

    BitbyBlit .

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    I guess I liked this episode better than most, while not liking the 50th anniversary special as much as those same people because I didn't think it was that much worse. I enjoyed this special almost as much as the 50th anniversary, but the problem I had with this one was the same as the other: I thought it fell short in its attempt at being something truly epic.

    And even though I didn't mention it specifically in my post in the 50th anniversary thread, I think the core issue I have is that both episodes boiled down to being solved by Clara giving a motivational pep talk.

    While I support Clara having an influence, I would have preferred that she be the catalyst for the events rather than the center point around which those events revolved. That's why I preferred my alternate 50th anniversary ending of the Doctor deliberately deciding to erase his memory. In that case, it wouldn't be the Doctor deciding to rewrite history simply because Clara gave him the "remember who you are" pep talk, but rather him deciding to take action because of it. It might seem like a subtle difference, but to me it's the difference between the Doctor doing something completely different absent Clara's uplifting speech and his mind simply being opened to a new possibility.

    Similarly, in this episode the Time Lords are sitting around doing nothing until Clara tells them, "You know who the Doctor is." And then they suddenly decide to give the Doctor a whole new set of regenerations and close the rift. Really? That's all they needed to hear? Some random alien telling them to believe in the Doctor?

    I would have preferred something else to have been the primary factor in their change of heart. My alternate ending would have had the question "Doctor Who?" being repeated in the room with Clara and the rift. Then Clara would have walked over to the rift and said, "You want to know who the Doctor is? This is who the Doctor is." And with that, she would have shoved her hand in the crack, and flashes from her various incarnations would have been shown, letting us know that the Time Lords were seeing the Doctor's life from her perspective while she had been split across his timeline. (Something that Clara herself would not have been capable of doing, but would have been made possible via Time Lord technology/abilities and the effects of the rift unraveling events in space-time.)

    Seeing the Doctor's life would not only let them see what the Doctor was capable of, but also the effects of the Time War from his perspective. This would allow them not only to understand why they couldn't return now, but also to realize that they could put their hope in the Doctor to find a way. And that would be their ultimate motivation for giving the Doctor a new set of regenerations and closing the rift.

    Of course, we would also need an explanation for why Clara didn't die or get erased from history after touching the rift, so instead of the regeneration energy coming straight from the rift and going to the Doctor, perhaps it would instead go into Clara, reviving her. Then she would walk up to the Doctor and transfer it to him. After that, the rift could open in space and swallow the Dalek mothership, which would not only remove their threat, but cause the rift to collapse.

    With this ending, Clara would still be important because she would need to be willing to sacrifice herself for the Doctor. But at the same time, it wouldn't just be about what she said, but who she was. She wouldn't be just some random alien, but someone whose history with the Doctor would play a vital role in making her case to the Time Lords.

    All of that buildup of Clara being the Impossible Girl could have paid off in a big way in this episode, and I feel that it fell short by ignoring that aspect of her. Instead, we are left with the last reference to that aspect being a bunch of flashbacks of her saving the Doctor throughout time, which was nice, but not something we really got to experience.

    Any of the Doctor's companions could have made the same speech that Clara did. Heck, a lot of the townspeople could have as well. It would have been nice if Clara had offered something that only she could have given in order to save the Doctor.
     
  2. secondclaw

    secondclaw Member

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    BitbyBlit - I prefer your version to the one that actually transpired ...
     
  3. lpwcomp

    lpwcomp Well-Known Member

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    John's...
    Back in the day, there was there was a lot of initial skepticism about the Peter Davison Doctor, for the opposite reason Johncv doesn't like Peter Capaldi. IIRC, there was even a filk song about it - "Doctor Who is Going Preppy".
     
  4. sushikitten

    sushikitten LivingLippy.com

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    Thanks. I should have known I didn't remember correctly. (It's a rarity these days.)
     
  5. danterner

    danterner Not it!

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    One part of this episode that I appreciated - the score. Did anyone notice that just before the Doctor regenerates, the music changes to the melody from the "Long Song" from the Rings of Akhatan episode? Remember how the lyrics of that song went? "Rest now, my warrior, Lay down, your hardship is over, Live, Wake up, Wake up, And let the cloak of life cling to your bones."
     
  6. Jan 1, 2014 #146 of 204
    scandia101

    scandia101 Just the facts ma'am

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    There's music?
     
  7. Jan 1, 2014 #147 of 204
    TonyTheTiger

    TonyTheTiger Pro Troll Magnet

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    Could you BE more wrong?

    Hate is such a strong word. I disliked Matt Smith when he first became the Doctor and my opinion of him didn't change much through his run. However, that was as much to do with Moffat's writing as his persona.

    I gave him a chance, though, and I wasn't stupid enough to say I hated him from 15 seconds of screen time!
     
  8. Jan 1, 2014 #148 of 204
    Rob Helmerichs

    Rob Helmerichs I am Groot! TCF Club

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    I thought he was being satirical, until his subsequent post where he doubled down on his reasons for hating a performance he hasn't even seen yet.
     
  9. Jan 1, 2014 #149 of 204
    Jstkiddn

    Jstkiddn Shutity up up up

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    Yep.

    I've only watched since the reboot, but I've hated every new doctor at first.....then I quickly grew to love them. Hope it can happen a third time!
     
  10. Jan 1, 2014 #150 of 204
    Langree

    Langree The Gimp

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    See, I think I'm going to really enjoy this more mature Doctor, I like the actor and am a fan of the classic show.

    Of the new ones, Smith was my least favorite, but I blame that more on the writing, he had flashes of brilliance, but they were few and far between.
     
  11. Jan 1, 2014 #151 of 204
    gchance

    gchance 4 8 15 16 23 42

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    Here's where I strongly disagree.

    I've been a Doctor Who fan since 1986, and have seen plenty of episodes of the classic series (still not all, of course). I have, however, seen every episode of the new series.

    In the short 15 seconds of introduction probably 20 times now, I can say that THIS is what Doctor Who is supposed to be. I loved Matt Smith, David Tennant, and Christopher Eccleston, but Peter Capaldi is a move in the right direction. I can't wait for full episodes.

    Greg
     
  12. Jan 1, 2014 #152 of 204
    Langree

    Langree The Gimp

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    Freezinmyass...
    Are you new to the show?
     
  13. Jan 2, 2014 #153 of 204
    lpwcomp

    lpwcomp Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, there's your target audience for Doctor Who - horny teenage girls. They should've cast Justin Beiber. :rolleyes:

    Actors who have been The Doctor and age at which they first assumed the role (In regen order):

    1. William Henry Hartnell 55 (actually played him older)
    2. Patrick Troughton 46
    3. John Pertwee 51
    4. Tom Baker 40
    5. Peter Davison 30 (much wailing and gnashing of teeth about it at the time)
    6. Colin Baker 40
    7. Sylvester McCoy 44
    8. Paul McGann 37
    9. John Hurt 73
    10. Christopher Eccleston 41
    11. David Tennant 34
    12. Matt Smith 27
    13. Peter Capaldi 55 (Interesting. They're starting a whole new regen cycle with an actor who is the same age as the original).

    Average age 44. Throwing out the admitted anomaly John Hurt, average age 41+. Median age 41, 40.5 w/o John Hurt.

    This list does not include Richard Hurndall (73), who filled in for the deceased William Hartnell in "The Five Doctors", nor Peter Cushing (52) who assayed the role in two theatrical movies.

    I guess I'm wrong about the Justin Beiber thing, At 21, he's too old to continue with the 7-year reduction of the last two regens.
     
  14. Jan 2, 2014 #154 of 204
    Lori

    Lori Social Defective

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    For me, I expect that I will like Capaldi fine. Just as I liked Eccleston fine, and I liked Smith fine.

    Each of them suffers from not being Tennant, whom I might take a bullet for. :D
     
  15. Jan 2, 2014 #155 of 204
    busyba

    busyba The Funcooker

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  16. Jan 2, 2014 #156 of 204
    danterner

    danterner Not it!

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    Awww.., :(
     
  17. Jan 2, 2014 #157 of 204
    Lori

    Lori Social Defective

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    I know exactly how she feels. :)

    I miss my skinny-suit doctor. :(
     
  18. Jan 2, 2014 #158 of 204
    scandia101

    scandia101 Just the facts ma'am

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    I disagree.
    Capaldi will be a perfectly adequate Doctor whom many will love and many will dislike.
     
  19. Jan 2, 2014 #159 of 204
    sushikitten

    sushikitten LivingLippy.com

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    Heh. This.
     
  20. Jan 2, 2014 #160 of 204
    Rob Helmerichs

    Rob Helmerichs I am Groot! TCF Club

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    It's funny, to me Tennant is the least of the modern Doctors.

    And that's a great group to be the least of, but although he had the advantage of a copacetic writer-producer, I think Eccleston and Smith both out-performed him. And I have little doubt that Capaldi will out-perform them all (now if only he's given great material to work with!).
     

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