Doctor Who - The Girl Who Waited 9/10/11

Discussion in 'Now Playing - TV Show Talk' started by JohnB1000, Sep 10, 2011.

  1. secondclaw

    secondclaw Member

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    Loved it... Reminded me of The Girl In The Fireplace ... Same themes of aging and waiting for the Doctor. Karen's acting was pretty impressive too.
     
  2. BitbyBlit

    BitbyBlit .

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    Because the Doctor likes the mystery. Rory asked the Doctor why he didn't check the history books before going to a particular place and time. The Doctor's response was, "Because that's not how I travel."

    I think when you have all of time and space at your disposal, mystery becomes all the more sacred. That's why the Doctor likes journeying with companions, so he can see the wonder in their eyes as they experience things for the first time that he would normally only see as mundane.

    One thing I was wondering about the doors though was why Amy didn't try looking for an exit button. I'm assuming there wasn't one, and perhaps we are to assume that Amy thought of that during the first week of her stay. But Rory and the Doctor didn't even ask Amy if there was a way she could leave.

    They went from "Oh, you pressed the wrong button" to Rory trying to open the door to go to her, but the thought of having Amy leave didn't seem to cross their minds.

    Unless the virus existed in some kind of weird temporal state that kept it in regular time while the rest of the person was in the sped-up time. Or maybe the kindness injections did something to the virus that kept it in regular time.

    Perhaps their medicine had the ability to target the virus and selectively counter the effects of the artificial time stream, but not put the virus in its own time stream. In that case, they could not make the virus any slower than regular time, so the person would still need to be isolated.

    However, that still wouldn't explain why Amy's hunger was still in regular time, but her body aged in sped-up time. With how technologically advanced this place was, I think they should have just had the place beam in daily food for her to eat. Either that or had Amy not age. That would have made for an interesting story, with two Amys that looked the same, but one much older than the other.

    With how good Karen did in this episode, it would have been interesting to see if she could have pulled off the subtle differences between the older and younger selves without the aid of costumes and makeup. It would have been difficult, but I think she could.

    Nonetheless, despite some plot holes, I thought it was an excellent episode that raised the philosophical question of, "What does it mean to exist?"
     
  3. BitbyBlit

    BitbyBlit .

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    What do you mean by "happened"? Do you mean that Amy, Rory, and the Doctor still remember older Amy? Because other than the memories, what happened to older Amy was erased once the TARDIS left the building.

    The thing is, though, older Amy brought younger Amy forward in time, and then helped them to escape. So the way I see it, the paradox is still there even without older Amy in the TARDIS.
     
  4. john4200

    john4200 Well-Known Member

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    Which seems awfully callous of the Doctor, since he can usually get himself out of trouble (and he can regenerate), but it is hell on the companions.

    He could have saved Amy 36 years of hell if he had just said at the beginning, oops, everyone back in the TARDIS, we will move over a little to where this planet looks like it is supposed to look and there are people around rather than mystery buttons.
     
  5. jschuur

    jschuur TV-holic, improving

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    A beautiful episode.

    My one complaint is they left Older Amy's fate slightly ambiguous. Sure, they talked about her being wiped out as if she never existed earlier, but that was before the reveal of the Doctor basically lying. In my opinion, there's still a little bit of doubt about whether she actually ceased to exist, because they didn't show her fading away, Marty McFly style, in the unmistaken visual language of 'never even existed'.
     
  6. spikedavis

    spikedavis New Member

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    Well in any case weren't the handbots going to give her the lethal medicine after they put her to sleep?v in any case-she's gone.
     
  7. dtle

    dtle Well-Known Member

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    DFW
    When the Doctor was giving Rory the glasses to wear, did he something in the line "no more regeneration"??
     
  8. robojerk

    robojerk Well-Known Member

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    Time Lords have a limited number of regenerations. I think the Doctor has used them all up, I was wondering if when River saved him by using up all of her regenerations, if somehow he obtained the energy. I guess not, or he isn't aware of it yet. They either have to end the series with Matt Smith, or come up with a way to give the Doctor more regenerations after this incarnation.
     
  9. kmccbf

    kmccbf New Member

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    I thought the Doctor said "The virus is deadly to me and no regeneration." implying that the virius was not only deadly, but stopped him from regenerating as well.

    The other quote I took special note of was:
    "Knowing your future is the first step to be able to change it."

    Think this might have ramification for later in the series.
     
  10. pgogborn

    pgogborn Well-Known Member

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    Amy should have known better to have pressed a red shiny button :)

    River Song killed "a good man" - I sometimes wonder if Rory rather than the Doctor best fits that description (assuming he isn't already dead).

    And once again we are told "that the Doctor lies" - I wonder if that will be significant in the final episode.
     
  11. Jstkiddn

    Jstkiddn Shutity up up up

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    This is exactly how I understood the meaning of that statement.
     
  12. LoadStar

    LoadStar LOAD"*",8,1

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    That was how I interpreted the line as well.
     
  13. matt@thehickmans

    matt@thehickmans Hemo_jr

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    Erased? That is delusional, a convenient fictional convention. The Amy+36 existed. she was shown as real in this episode. In that context her 36 years being alone happened.

    Of course, this is how many time-travel stories are written, but I suspect Moffat has seen through this convention. I don't see any significant difference if the Doctor had put a bullet through her head, dissolved the body in acid and and cast a spell to ensure that everyone forgot about her.

    The thing is that Amy will remember meeting Amy+36. She will remember the Doctor's false promises, and realize that they were promises not kept to her. And if the show treats this realistically, their relationship will never be the same. Because Amy could no longer have faith in the Doctor who lied to her and abandoned her.
     
  14. JohnB1000

    JohnB1000 Well-Known Member

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    Add that to Rory's shouted comment about traveling with the Doctor (I don't remember the exact words) and you can see the end coming for these two companions.
     
  15. JETarpon

    JETarpon Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. I think they are setting it up for them not being back next season.
     
  16. robojerk

    robojerk Well-Known Member

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    +1

    I think after all they've been through, and they have an adult daughter who is older than they are, I think it's time for them to get back to living normal linear lives.
     
  17. spikedavis

    spikedavis New Member

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    Bingo.
     
  18. LoadStar

    LoadStar LOAD"*",8,1

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    Time travel itself is a "convenient fictional convention." To say that one portrayal of time travel or another is "delusional" is, itself, bordering on delusional. They're all fiction, none more valid than the other.
    She _was_ real. Then she changed all that by helping, which caused those 36 years to become an impossibility. By helping, she no longer could possibly exist, and it created a paradox. The two coexisted as long as the paradox was able to be sustained; after that, only one could survive.
    On the other hand, knowing that the two could never coexist in the TARDIS, she might realize that the Doctor did what he could to save her from 36 years of self-described "hell." He also kept the first promise he made to her, the one where he promises to save her (not Amy +36, but her).
     
  19. john4200

    john4200 Well-Known Member

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    FYP.

    Forward time travel is well understood by science. By travelling very close to the speed of light (special relativity), or hovering in a very strong gravitational field like that near the event horizon of a black hole (general relativity), it is quite possible to travel forward in time.

    And before you remark that we are all traveling forward in time, I was referring to traveling forward FASTER than normal. In other words, one twin stays at home on earth, the other twin takes a round trip to Alpha Centauri at 99.9999% of the speed of light. The traveling twin will return years younger than the stay-at-home twin.

    Backwards in time is much trickier according to current scientific understanding. There are a few theories on how it might be possible (involving wormholes and "exotic matter"), but it is far from well understood, and may actually be impossible due to paradoxes.
     
  20. LoadStar

    LoadStar LOAD"*",8,1

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    Fair enough. :)
     

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