Doctor Who Pre Finale Discussion - All Series Spoilers Possible

Discussion in 'Now Playing - TV Show Talk' started by JohnB1000, Sep 28, 2011.

  1. JohnB1000

    JohnB1000 Well-Known Member

    Dec 6, 2004


    I'm having a really hard time with the timeline for what's going on here, with my admittedly bad memory.

    At the beginning of Episode 1 this season, the Doctor showed up to meet Amy and Rory wearing a Stetson. At the end of the latest episode he got that from Craig. So does this imply he is now going to meet Amy and Rory in some kind of time circle for the season ?

    Also is the Doctor we saw in Episode 12 the "future" 200yo Doctor or the "current one". If he's the current one then how did the "other" Doctor get into the toilets in Arizona (I guess if you haven't watched the show this sound ridiculous)

    Now River, she died the first time we met her, a few years ago, I just rewatched that to look for clues or hints. I would guess that this episode might be the last time we see her, but she can't depart this episode to go to "The Library" because there appears to be a whole life to live before then. In Silence in the Library she referred to the first time she met the Doctor, this is not a scene that appears consistent with the current storyline.

    I'm interested in people's theories and ideas, hopefully without any spoilers of the finale, including the trailer. I'm very forgiving and quite happy to forgive inconsistency, I'm just interested in people's ideas.
  2. danterner

    danterner Not it!

    Mar 4, 2005
    Greenacres, FL
    I could be totally off-base, because I'm horrible when it comes to timey-wimey, but here's how I understood it:

    The Doctor in this last episode ("Closing Time") was definitely the older Doctor. After saying good bye to Rory and Amy in the episode prior ("God Complex"), the Doctor wandered alone and companionless for 200+ years, aging to the point where his age is just shy of the age he was when he was shot by the lake. He then returned to April 2011 and went to visit the guy from "The Tenant" (was his name Craig? I can't recall). This whole episode was him having one last hurrah before heading to the lake. He got the stetson from Craig (and if you noticed he also borrowed a few large blue envelopes - these are the envelopes he used to send the "invitations" to Amy, Rory, Canton, and the younger version of himself). When he encountered Amy and Rory at the mall, from their perspective they had just seen him about a month ago. From his perspective, it had been 200 years. Still, he decided not to say hello.
  3. cheesesteak

    cheesesteak Meh. TCF Club

    Jul 24, 2003
    15 mins...
    I just hope he doesn't mumble so much during the finale. I'm not the biggest Tennant fan but at least he projected.
  4. JohnB1000

    JohnB1000 Well-Known Member

    Dec 6, 2004
    I think Matt Smith is great but I'm a Brit so I probably understand him.

    I need to rewatch episode 1 BUT wasn't The Doctor waiting for them with the Stetson etc. outside their house ? I definitely need to rewatch.

    I also forget whether it was the older or younger Doctor that got shot.

    If 200 years had passed, which I think is possible, they really should have done a better job of showing/explaining that in Ep 12.
  5. LoadStar

    LoadStar LOAD"*",8,1

    Jul 24, 2001
    Milwaukee, WI


    Amy and Rory got their blue invitation. They went to America, and ran into the Doctor (the older one, the one we just saw in this episode), wearing the stetson hat, and River Song.

    The older Doctor was the one that got shot. After that, the old version of Canton Delaware (the FBI agent played by Mark and William Morgan Sheppard) showed up with the can of petrol and gave the Doctor's body a Viking funeral. Rory, Amy, and River retreated to the diner, where the young Doctor (unaware of everything that just happened) showed up with *his* invitation.
  6. pgogborn

    pgogborn Well-Known Member

    Nov 11, 2002
    The Doctor lies. Perhaps he lied about his age.
  7. NJChris

    NJChris Kermie Loves Elmo TCF Club

    May 11, 2001
    This seems all so confusing just so that "nurse" lady can kill the doctor. :)

    Make a copy of Amy, take preg amy's kid, raise it to hate the doc, then get to her later to make her do what they wanted her to do a while ago.


    And what happened to the other people in Amy's family that were in a couple of the first season episodes? Are they stuck in a time loop?

    And will Wesley save the doctor from the warp bubble?
  8. ehusen

    ehusen Geek not Nerd

    Jan 7, 2002
    Chicago Suburbs
    Yeah, I really love the show but this whole convoluted method of "killing" the doctor seems absurd. It smacks of the evil villain that instead of just shooting the hero when he has the advantage, chooses to setup an elaborate "inescapable" trap and then "leaves the hero to his fate".

    I'm hoping that some reason why all this is necessary for annihilation of the doctor will be revealed but I doubt it.

    Oh well, I will just continue enjoying the show. Sometimes you've just got to look past the plot flaws.
  9. pteronaut

    pteronaut Well-Known Member

    Dec 26, 2009
    You know, you've just describe the legacy series version of The Master down to a T.
  10. vertigo235

    vertigo235 Well-Known Member TCF Club

    Oct 27, 2000
    I still think it's a pretty big hint that the Doctor who got killed didn't have a TARDIS, he was driving a car if I recall correctly. I'm still watching Closing Time, so I'm not sure if this Doctor has a TARDIS.
  11. vertigo235

    vertigo235 Well-Known Member TCF Club

    Oct 27, 2000
    Well so much for that, there's the TARDIS at the end.
  12. JohnB1000

    JohnB1000 Well-Known Member

    Dec 6, 2004
    I didn't want to spoil it for you :)

    Rewatching Silence in the Library, I really doubt there was any long term plan for now but I do think they've gone back and referenced a couple of things. River references how the Doctor turned back armies and stuff like that which would have happened from this season for the River at that point of the squiqqly timeline.
  13. JohnB1000

    JohnB1000 Well-Known Member

    Dec 6, 2004
    Another couple of Silence in the Library things.

    • River Song and her team arrived wearing spacesuits
    • EP2 of this season was Day of the Moon, a main character in SOL was Doctor Moon (a virus checker)
  14. MarkofT

    MarkofT ****

    Jul 27, 2001
    Where Texas...
    The writers like to slip in little throw away lines. Like back when Melody was first born. Rory went to get River and she was just returning from a visit with the Doctor who had taken her out for her birthday.

    Since she used to have regenerations, she would also have a very long life, if she can avoid getting killed. It could be that in the "missing" 200 years of the Doctor's life, he's come around quite often to visit her. We also have yet to see where she gets her fighting skills. They didn't really say, but it seems that after the events of "Let's Kill Hitler", she went off into the far future to learn history and after the events of "Closing Time", she had just gotten her doctorate. The River that was on the beach for the Doctor's death was after this time in her lifeline since she already knew she had missed shooting herself.

    So the only real thread they need to tie up is, was that the real Doctor that died? Or did he pull some sort of switcharoo? Could have been his 'ganger. Maybe he was able to modify a progeneration machine to make a clone.
  15. cstelter

    cstelter Active Member

    Mar 17, 2002
    Mankato, MN
    I guess I'm going with the theory that after the Doctor dropped off Amy and Rory, he hooked up with the flesh Doctor who was somehow able to recompose himself (possibly with the help of the Doctor) as the Doctor suggested when they were last together in "Almost People".

    Also in that episode they mentioned that the flesh doctor was about to meet his death and the real Doctor mentions "And this time we're not invited", leading me to believe that the Doctor in the recent episode was in fact the flesh doctor (because he had the invites). Or possibly there were two different doctor's in the recent episode-- which could explain the TARDIS (I'm assuming they can't have a functioning flesh TARDIS).

    I could equally see the Doctor connecting with the flesh Doctor and then stopping off in America with directions of "Take the TARDIS for 200 years-- just have it back for me by Monday" or something like that where the Docter gives his TARDIS to the flesh doctor to use it for 200 years. The flesh doctor delivers the invites to the younger Doctor and Amy/Rory/River, then returns to wherever he left the Doctor, the real doctor drops flesh Doctor off in Utah with the car he had. In this theory, it's the flesh doctor injecting himself in history as seen in the opening minutes of the impossible astronaut.

    So after the flesh doctor is killed by the younger River in the Astronaut suit, the older River, younger Amy/Rory/Doctor all meet and take off. The older Doctor (older than the Doctor at the cafe, but younger than the flesh doctor's sum of memories) hops in his Tardis and is ready for season three.

    But why? Possibly because Amy saw a silent on the beach in what, 2011? This means the Moonlanding video did not manage to eradicate the silence after 50 years, and of course they are still working with eyepatch lady anyway. So the Doctor wants them to think they killed him for good and with the aid of the flesh Doctor, now he can finish off the silence without them seeing it come? Who knows.

    Then again there is the business with the regeneration aura-- would a flesh doctor be able to do that? Trickery?

    Another random things my kids and I have noticed-- In the seemingly one-off indian in the cupboard style episode when the kid put everyone in the doll house, the dolls were singing the same tick-tock song that was at the end of the most recent episode but when they get to the line of "when River kills the Doctor" it just kind of fades away.

    Also I couldn't help notice all the shusshing going on in the latest episode-- very much had me thinking of 'silence'.

    Anyway, if these musing are even partially right, it might imply the greatness of those around the Doctor-- River sacraficing her entire life (in every sense of the word-- her regenerations, her freedom, everything so that the Doctor could appear to be killed to the silence's satisfaction. Flesh Doctor allowing himself to be killed. Then again, maybe they knew River would be killed by the silence if she didn't kill the Doctor so maybe it was a way to save River.

    Anyway-- it's by no means a cohesive theory, but it seems as plausible to me as any other I've heard.
  16. busyba

    busyba The Funcooker

    Feb 5, 2003
    I'm going to stop thinking about it until after I see the finale. :)
  17. Rob Helmerichs

    Rob Helmerichs I am Groot! TCF Club

    Oct 17, 2000
    If you think these theories are wild and out-there, wait until you see the theories that will pop up after the finalé! :D

    (I say this without specific knowledge of the finalé. I say this with knowledge of the internet in general and TCF in particular.)
  18. kaszeta

    kaszeta $nullstring TCF Club

    Jun 11, 2004
    Grantham, NH
    The one thing I didn't catch is how does the Doctor know he's only got one day left? He saw in the database when he was going to die, but nothing about his exact age, right?
  19. tiassa

    tiassa Me --Avatar

    Jul 2, 2008
    I definitely think the Flesh Doctor is going to factor into this (he might be the "one that dies", but knowing Moffat he cold well be the one that lives), but another thing -- "Eyepatch lady" is played by Alex Kingston, right? Has it been confirmed that she is River Song from another timeline (or later in her life-- maybe after many, many years in that prison?). She also said that she couldn't "answer the call" when Rory came to get her at the beginning of "Demon's Run", perhaps she would be crossing her own timeline (which would make Eyepatch Lady an earlier incarnation of River).
    This isn't a cohesive theory, more a set of random musings, but I figured I'd enter it in the debate.
  20. Rob Helmerichs

    Rob Helmerichs I am Groot! TCF Club

    Oct 17, 2000
    Uh, no...

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