Do I need towo POE filters?

Discussion in 'TiVo Roamio DVRs' started by Johncmug, Mar 30, 2020.

  1. Johncmug

    Johncmug New Member

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    I have a Roamio OTA and am about to purchase a Tivo Mini VOX along with a couple bridges to get them on a MoCa network.

    I have an antenna where I receive over the air channels. I know I'll need a POE filter before I split out the signal. My question is, do I need another before the cable modem on my cable internet feed?

    Thanks in advance and cheers!
    Johncmug
     
  2. snerd

    snerd Well-Known Member

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    Do you really need to split out the signal from the antenna? If the Roamio is the only OTA receiver, then you can feed the antenna directly to the Roamio, and no PoE filter is needed.

    The Roamio OTA does not have built-in MoCA capability, so there is no need/benefit for having MoCA signals on the coax port of the Roamio.
     
  3. mdavej

    mdavej Well-Known Member

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    We really need to see a diagram to be sure. But generally, POE means Point Of Entry which is the box outside your house, or, in the case of an antenna, at the antenna. The filter's main purpose is to keep Moca signals inside your home and off the air waves or the cable company's network. Its secondary purpose is to properly reflect Moca frequencies which slightly improves performance.

    I'm having a hard time understanding why you'd have Moca signals on BOTH your antenna's coax AND your cable/internet provider's coax. It should be one or the other. Mixing antenna and cable on the same wire isn't going to work anyway.

    My guess is, you don't have any Moca on your internet provider coax, hence don't need a filter. But if you did, it belongs on the line coming from the street. You can keep the one on your antenna feed, but I personally just use a diplexer instead of a filter. It doesn't quite meet the spec but is good enough in the real world, about 99% power reduction.

    The only exception to this is tuning adapters. Those may need an additional filter on their input if they can't tolerate Moca signals. Since you're an antenna user, this isn't a concern for you at all.
     
  4. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    We’d need a description of your coax layout (used and available for use) and equipment locations to be able to answer authoritatively.

    A critical aspect you’ll need to consider is that MoCA signals can coexist with either OTA or cable signals, but OTA and cable TV/BB signals can’t share a coax run.

    OTA: 40-860 MHz
    CATV/BB: 5-1002 MHz
    MoCA: 1125-1675 MHz
     
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  5. Johncmug

    Johncmug New Member

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    Mar 29, 2020
    Thanks for all the feedback! A quick disclaimer... I don't have this setup yet, I am still laying out the plan.

    I am only using OTA signals, these are coming in from an atenna on a pole. It is being split 4 ways right now. My internet connection is broadband through Spectrum. No cable TV. As a result, it sounds like I don't need a POE on the coax coming in from Spectrum (supplying the internet).

    I have uploaded a diagram of what I think I need to do. Thanks again and all feedback is definitely welcome and appreciated!!

    TivoMoCaPlan-1.png
     
  6. snerd

    snerd Well-Known Member

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    To maximize OTA signal levels at the point where OTA is used, in the basement I'd recommend two 3-way splitters and a diplexer.

    One 3-way splitter would have the antenna connected to the input. Two of the outputs would go to the TVs, the third would connect to the UHF/VHF port of the diplexer. This splitter will only have OTA signals (and a tiny amount of MoCA, which can be ignored) so no PoE is needed. I'd suggest an unbalanced splitter with the lower loss 3dB port going to the diplexer.

    The other 3-way splitter should be a MoCA-rated splitter. Attach a PoE filter to the input, and put a 75-ohm termination on the other side of the PoE filter. One output connects from the TiVo bridge that feeds in internet signals, another goes to the Mini, and the third goes to the SAT port of the diplexer. The IN/OUT port of the diplexer goes to the living room. This splitter only carries MoCA signals.

    The diplexer combines the OTA and MoCA signals that go to the Roamio. To get the best OTA signals to the Roamio, use a second diplexer instead of a 2-way splitter. The IN/OUT port connect to the coax coming into the Living Room, the UHF/VHF port goes to the Roamio, and the SAT port goes to the TiVo Bridge. This Holland Diplexer is convenient 2-pack so that you'll have both diplexers.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2020
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  7. mdavej

    mdavej Well-Known Member

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    @Johncmug, I wouldn't do it that way. By the time the antenna signal gets all the way to your Roamio, it's only 6% its original strength, thanks to all those splits. If you do it with a pair of satellite diplexers, strength is much higher and you don't need a POE.

    EDIT: @snerd - great minds think alike!

    EDIT2: The leftmost diplexer would actually be in the box with the other splitters.

    If you replace the word SAT on the diplexer with the word MOCA, it's easier to understand what signals pass through each port. So the ANT port only has OTA frequencies, no Moca frequencies. Likewise the SAT port only has Moca frequencies, no OTA. And the ANT/SAT has both OTA and Moca.
    sketch.png
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2020
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  8. Johncmug

    Johncmug New Member

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    Excellent! Thanks for both approahches to seperating the MoCa from the OTA.

    mdavej...

    That comment is magic! That in combination with the sketch really solidified what we are wanting to do, thank you so much.

    Johncmug
     
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  9. snerd

    snerd Well-Known Member

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    Yup!

    Both solutions provide the same OTA signal strength to the Roamio and TVs.

    One advantage of your solution is that it sends MoCA signals to every room, so that moving the Mini (or adding new Minis) would not require any changes in wiring (except that moving the Mini would mean Bedroom 1 would have no way to get any video signals).

    Edit: Your solution also has better MoCA signal strength in most locations. Signal strength between the Mini and internet Bridge is potentially problematic, as noted below.

    One important nitpick: In your solution, the 3-way splitter does *not* need to be MoCA rated, and there is no benefit to using a MoCA rated splitter in that position. However, the 2-way splitter that is shared by the Mini and the internet Bridge should be MoCA rated so that the MoCA signals can port-hop. Otherwise, the Mini might have trouble connecting to the internet.
     
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  10. Johncmug

    Johncmug New Member

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    Mar 29, 2020
    I made most of my purchases and fortunately did buy MoCa rated Holland 2 and 3 way splitters. And Thanks for the Diplexer link @snerd , I bought those too.

    Thanks again!
    Johncmug
     
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