Do HD's just need to reboot now and then?

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by dlfl, Oct 4, 2009.

  1. Jun 10, 2010 #41 of 104
    m_jonis

    m_jonis Member

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    Thanks, I'll take a look at that and also the HDMI thingy
     
  2. Jun 12, 2010 #42 of 104
    dlfl

    dlfl Cranky old novice

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    Another remote lockup followed by reboot today, only two days after the previous one. I clicked to the NPL, which always fills slowly. (Is that normal with 1 TB capacity?) This time it painted just the "Recently Deleted" and the "Netflix" lines at the bottom and then hung. Knowing how Netflix can cause lockups/reboots if the internet connection glitches, I can't help suspecting this actually had to do with that. I'm wondering if Netflix wasn't selected from the last time I was on the NPL and it hung some way due to that. I'm going to make sure Netflix isn't currently selected whenever I leave the NPL to see if that helps.

    I've had the problem of Netflix disappearing from the NPL (requiring connecting to TiVo mothership to fix) recently. I wonder if the reason Netflix disappears from the NPL is that TiVo knows it can hang the system and removes it as a defensive measure based on detecting some likely problem with the Netflix connection.

    This time I power-cycled the TV twice just to rule out an HDMI problem -- no effect on the remote lockup at all.
     
  3. Jun 13, 2010 #43 of 104
    m_jonis

    m_jonis Member

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    What happens if you unplug the USB from the TA? (at least if it "freezes" up)?

    So far, that fixes it for me. (ie, I go into NPL and all I will get is the background screen and nothing else).

    Unfortunately once the USB is unplugged, (and I get the "you don't have a TA connected" message), the TA starts a steady blinking on it and even when I plug it back in, the Tivo won't find it again so I can only get non-SDV channels.

    Power cycling the TA at that point won't get it working again (just steady blinking light).

    Power cycling the Tivo at that point gets things working. Of course it's about a 12 minute reboot cycle before you can actually start watching NPL or LiveTV.
     
  4. Jun 13, 2010 #44 of 104
    dlfl

    dlfl Cranky old novice

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    Yeah, I've been wondering about the USB thing and may try it next time. Sounds like it gets you out of the lock up but then you have to reboot the TiVo anyway to get your channels back. Thus it isn't much of a work around -- but it's interesting from a diagnostic POV, i.e., it points the finger at the TA USB interface as the culprit.

    If there was just some way to get the TiVo to go through the "Acquiring Channels" process (without rebooting it) after reconnecting the USB, it would actually be a much less painful workaround to the problem. Someone once told me you can force acquiring channels with guided setup but I don't see how that would work, or at least wouldn't be a cure worse than the disease.

    Note there is another well known TA-related problem, failure to tune SDV channels requiring a retry (**this** for example), that already points a finger at the USB interface!
     
  5. Jun 14, 2010 #45 of 104
    dlfl

    dlfl Cranky old novice

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    Another Remote lockup followed by reboot today -- happening every two days now. I tried disconnecting the TA USB cable this time. It seemed to work but when I went back to live TV remote response was locked up again and then it rebooted.

    It's hard to suspect the hard drive since I see absolutely no signs (pixellation, freezes) of a HDD problem, but I guess I'll have to run some kick start tests and maybe remove the drive for testing with mfr's diagnostics, connected to a PC. It's a WD10EADS that I installed less than a year ago.

    I have been watching Netflix more frequently the last few days -- can't help but be suspicious of a possible connection there. My intuition is some threads associated with Netflix get left dangling and eventually go beyond the OS capacity.
     
  6. Jun 14, 2010 #46 of 104
    m_jonis

    m_jonis Member

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    In my case I know it's not the HDD as I just put a brand new one in to rule that out (even ran the FULL diagnostics on the old one that took 8 hours). NO errors either.
     
  7. Jun 14, 2010 #47 of 104
    dlfl

    dlfl Cranky old novice

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    Yeah I did the same full diagnostics on my HDD before I installed it last September, but some months have now passed. I don't think it's my HDD but I'm tempted to transfer all the recordings I want to save to my PC and remove it and redo the extended diagnostics --just to prove it. I have a backup image of a TiVo system prior to 11.0g and I think I would restore that rather than my current 11.0g. There is a possibility the current system is corrupted and doing it that way will force an update to 11.0g from TiVo rather than just installing the possibly corrupt version.
     
  8. Jun 14, 2010 #48 of 104
    dlfl

    dlfl Cranky old novice

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    I just realized you said you ran the diagnostics on your old HDD -- you mean the one you just removed? And you were experiencing the reboots with this old drive, correct? That certainly proves it wasn't the HDD.

    How much do you use Netflix, if at all? Ever suspect a connection to that usage?
     
  9. Jun 16, 2010 #49 of 104
    m_jonis

    m_jonis Member

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    Well I think I have two different issues happening here.

    the last 3 times that the unit has auto-rebooted (ie, I didn't do anything, or notice a lockup) it has happened at exactly the same time (8:00 p.m.) I know that because I lost 12 minutes of each show it was supposed to record.

    Right now it's rebooting on me.

    Sounds like the Cisco bug where the TW 'hit" to renew the sub expiration date would cause the Tivo to reboot.

    Of course I don't have another TivoHD (and I refuse to buy another because TW sets the CCI byte on ALL channels except local HD so I can't do MRV or TTG).

    I guess I'll have to schedule a truck roll to get a new TA.
     
  10. Jun 16, 2010 #50 of 104
    dlfl

    dlfl Cranky old novice

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    If it is that you should be able to see an updated "Sub Expires" date in TA diagnostics.

    I had 4 remote-control lockup/reboots in 24 hours two days ago, with only 2 hrs between the last two. These were all the kind where the amber light responds to the remote but the TiVo doesn't -- then it reboots after a minute or so. I did kick start tests, which were strange because KS57 and KS58 completed in only a few minutes. I was about to pull the drive for testing but decided to revert back to component output first. That was 37 hours ago and so far -- no lockups, no reboots! And I have done a lot of TTG and Netflix in that time too.
     
  11. Jun 16, 2010 #51 of 104
    justen_m

    justen_m Cheesehead TCF Club

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    If anyone cares, I've never had a spontaneous reboot in the 9 months I've had my TivoHD, connected via HDMI, with a 1TB internal drive.

    I do think the TivoHD has a weak HDMI implementation. Often when I switch TV inputs from my S2DT or Sony Blu-ray player to the TivoHD, I will get a blank screen, or green static. I just switch to another input then back to the TivoHD once or twice, and that fixes the problem. A bit annoying but nothing major - it only takes a few more seconds. I've never had this problem with my Blu-ray player which is also connected via HDMI.

    I have had one remote control lockup where the amber light would go on and the TivoHD wouldn't respond, but I just waited about 30 seconds and everything started working again. No reboot.
     
  12. Jun 17, 2010 #52 of 104
    CraigHB

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    My HDMI interface is a little glitchy too. Sometimes when I switch input back to the TiVo, I don't get sound. If I switch tunners or cycle the input, it comes back. Happens rarely so I just live with it.
     
  13. Jun 17, 2010 #53 of 104
    m_jonis

    m_jonis Member

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    I may have a pair of component cables laying around that I may be able to use.
     
  14. Jun 17, 2010 #54 of 104
    dlfl

    dlfl Cranky old novice

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    60 hrs on component cables now with no lockups/reboots.

    I had noticed hum in the audio using component. I use "Auto Volume" on the TV and the hum was noticeable during quiet program intervals or on menus (having no audio). I suspected a grounding problem and finally did something about it yesterday, by running a wire from the AC outlet ground to a clamp on the outer shell of the coax cable connector at the wall plate. This did the trick. Before doing this the AC voltage between those two points measured 140 mV.

    I wonder if that could have caused problems with the HDMI, triggering my lockups?

    Meanwhile I have new HDMI cables on order, in case a bad cable was the problem. I'm hard pressed to detect a picture quality difference between component and HDMI on my 40" TV, so if running component solves my lockup problems, it's an acceptable solution (now that the hum is gone).
     
  15. Jun 17, 2010 #55 of 104
    hmm52

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    You feel like experimenting? Detach the components, switch back to your HDMI cable but leave the ground in place. Worth checking your coax and terminals all the way to the ONT. By any chance are you using an amplified antenna?
     
  16. Jun 18, 2010 #56 of 104
    dlfl

    dlfl Cranky old novice

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    I plan to try HDMI again (with the ground) when I get the new cables I ordered. I have one continuous RG6 cable from the wall plate to a splitter in the outside cable box.

    I've seen forum posts where there were 100's of volts on the cable ground relative to AC ground -- raises interesting questions doesn't it?
     
  17. Jun 18, 2010 #57 of 104
    hmm52

    hmm52 Member

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    I raised the point because I once had stray voltage from antenna coax (roof unit with preamp) cause immediate reapeatable reboots when connected. My thought was that you might not have an HDMI issue, cable or otherwise, but that the component cables are acting as grounds to bleed off voltage at the inputs. Thus the experiment suggestion.
     
  18. Jun 18, 2010 #58 of 104
    CraigHB

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    I had to learn the clean ground lesson myself the hard way.

    Grounds on AC outlets are very dirty. They can pick up all kinds of stray voltage as they daisy chain to other outlets on their way to the electrical panel. Using an outlet ground anywhere on your coax run can create a ground loop which induces that stray voltage into the signal. Lots of strange things can happen.

    Coax should only be grounded to the main electrical panel with a dedicated run. Normally, that would be at the cable ground block adjacent to the electrical panel. That provides the least shared path to the actual ground rod and the cleanest ground. Don't ground coax to an AC outlet or use a coax surge protector built into an AC surge protector. Those use the outlet ground on the coax.
     
  19. Jun 18, 2010 #59 of 104
    hmm52

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    Excellent point. The only ground I have is at the ONT - to a copper plumbing pipe. The nearby splitter was also grounded but was detached by a Verizon tech who recommended against it several years ago. What do you think?
     
  20. Jun 18, 2010 #60 of 104
    dlfl

    dlfl Cranky old novice

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    Our house is 11 years old and the AC Panel is in the basement. Power lines and cable TV are underground here. The power meter, telephone (POT), and cable boxes are clustered on the exterior wall close to the AC panel. The only ground rod I see is a small one with a wire coming out of the POT box to it. I'm not sure what a "cable ground block" would look like but I'm pretty sure there isn't one near my panel box. I suspect there is NO ground connection between the cable box and the power line ground -- certainly don't see one.

    I am guessing the TiVo was serving as the ground connection and that's why the hum level dropped so much when I grounded between the AC outlet and the cable coax at the wall plate.
     

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