Do HD's just need to reboot now and then?

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by dlfl, Oct 4, 2009.

  1. Oct 4, 2009 #1 of 104
    dlfl

    dlfl Cranky old novice

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    I had an S2 DT for three years before switching to my HD. AFAIK the S2 was functioning perfectly when I shelved it. However about 2 or 3 times per year the S2 would just spontaneously reboot -- no relation to what it was doing at the time. No major problem -- didn't get worse -- so I just chalked it up to the nature of the beast. Given the presumed complexity of TiVo software, the need for an occasional reboot would not surprise me.

    I just had my first spontaneous reboot on my HD, which seems to be functioning fine both before and after the reboot. I've had the HD for 4 months.

    Some detail:

    I have a Tuning Adapter, Digital Cable, and use HDMI to the TV.

    I had just tuned to the local ABC affiliate station, which was playing fine. I clicked the remote info button and got no response. I tried other remote buttons, all with no response, although I noticed the amber light was responding. I decided to just wait a while to see if it cleared but after maybe 45 secs the TiVo rebooted.

    There is another problem I've had occasionally. I would lose remote response at apparently random times. But this problem is different because the amber light was not responding. In all these cases either just waiting a while or power cycling the TV (not the TiVo) would regain the remote response and a TiVo reboot was not required. Thus I attributed this to an HDMI handshaking glitch. This problem has simple workarounds and doesn't occur often, so I live with it. Hasn't even been worth trying component connection to TV to see if it goes away.

    So I'm wondering if occasional spontaneous reboots are normal ?
     
  2. Oct 4, 2009 #2 of 104
    bkdtv

    bkdtv New Member

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    No, they are not. I have only had a single reboot in two years with the TivoHD, and that occurred during loss of internet connectivity with Netflix (a known issue).

    I think there are still some issues related to some tuning adapters.
     
  3. Oct 4, 2009 #3 of 104
    dlfl

    dlfl Cranky old novice

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    How about HDMI handshaking issues? Could they cause reboots?
    These will vary with the TV model or course.

    Also, my TiVo is on a UPS but my TA is only on surge protection. I wonder if a power flicker (which didn't affect anything else in the house) could have caused this?

    BTW: Am I correct that the HD only draws about 40 Watts or less? I was going by the manual which says 1 Amp. If it's only 40 Watts, my little UPS has enough cap. to also put the TA on it.
     
  4. Oct 5, 2009 #4 of 104
    tiassa

    tiassa Me --Avatar

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    This is just a wild guess, but it could be that with the TA not on the UPS, a power glitch could cause a reboot because the Tivo "lost" the TA. I know that is the case with external hard drives (got burned by that one, but only once!).
     
  5. Oct 5, 2009 #5 of 104
    aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

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    Anything related to the TiVo should also be on a UPS, ie. tunning adpater, external drive,etc.
     
  6. Oct 5, 2009 #6 of 104
    dlfl

    dlfl Cranky old novice

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    Yeah, I really knew this deep in my soul. I just wasn't sure my little UPS could handle both TiVo and TA.

    Can anyone verify the HD only draws about 40 Watts or less? The manual says 1 Amp (i.e., 120 Watts), but typically those ratings are peak, max numbers.
     
  7. Oct 5, 2009 #7 of 104
    dlfl

    dlfl Cranky old novice

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    Another question I just thought of:

    If I call TiVo support what are the odds they can (and will) look in the logs of my TiVo and tell me something useful about my spontaneous reboot?

    Also, do I have to worry about them seeing I've upgraded my internal drive to 1 TB?
     
  8. Oct 5, 2009 #8 of 104
    bkdtv

    bkdtv New Member

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    With a 1TB WD10EVVS, my TivoHD draws ~34 watts.

    Unless you are a beta tester, logging isn't enabled on your TiVo.

    I believe their system would show that. They may or may not refuse support.

    I'm not sure what TiVo could tell you that you can't learn here, however.
     
  9. Oct 5, 2009 #9 of 104
    dlfl

    dlfl Cranky old novice

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    Probably true! Thanks.
     
  10. Oct 5, 2009 #10 of 104
    aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

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    My S3 boxes and TiVoHD boxes also draw approximately 34 watts.
     
  11. Oct 18, 2009 #11 of 104
    akakii

    akakii New Member

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    For what it's worth, I'm having the EXACT same problem with mine with the exact same setup. It spontaneously rebooted yesterday but then worked fine for another 24 hours. Just now I had the experience of it not responding to the remote and it rebooted again, but this time it never finished the process. Once it went past the powering up/welcome screen, it then lost the signal and the screen went blank. I tried unplugging and restarting several times and had the exact same results. I've had too long a day to deal with support right now, but I'll call them tomorrow to see what's going on.


     
  12. Oct 18, 2009 #12 of 104
    dlfl

    dlfl Cranky old novice

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    I haven't had any more spontaneous reboots since my original post, but I did get the GSAS (green screen and siren) once recently and had to reboot.

    You probably should eliminate potential HDMI handshake problems from the mix by switching to component cables. I just did that tonight because I've been getting a lot of tune failures, followed by black screen and no remote response until I power cycle the TV. Others have done this. If your TV is more than 40" you might see slightly reduced picture quality with component.
     
  13. Nov 3, 2009 #13 of 104
    dlfl

    dlfl Cranky old novice

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    Another spontaneous reboot tonight. Everything normal, just doing what it always does at that time of the evening. Then I hit the Live TV button and it switched the video to the other channel, but did not update the guide data -- still showed the channel I had been watching. The remote response was locked up. No response to any remote keys (except TV volume), but the yellow light was responding. Finally the yellow light went on solid and shortly after that it rebooted.

    I'm now running on component cables to the TV, so HDMI problems can be ruled out. Both TiVo and TA are on a UPS and the TA was solid green both before and after rebooting.

    I installed a 1 TB internal drive on 9/9/09 but there has been no sign to indicate a drive problem. No additional pixelation or menu delays.

    One long shot: Although I'm using component to the TV, the HDMI cable I had been using is still connected to TiVo and TV. (I just select the component input on the TV.) It's been running fine that way for 10 days at least. I wonder if a HDMI glitch could still have been the culprit? The TV is just on surge protection. Maybe a power line glitch caused the TV to glitch the still-connected HDMI?
     
  14. Nov 3, 2009 #14 of 104
    lafos

    lafos Well-Known Member

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    I have an S3 connected by HDMI to a Samsung 40" LCD, and can't remember the last time it booted (a couple of months at least). Same with my HDs, one by HDMI, one by DVI, and one by component cables. The S3 and one HD have cablecards and TAs, and the other two are analog cable and OTA.

    You might remove the HDMI cable if you suspect it. You can also check the TV manufacturer's web site to see if they have updated firmware. I ha to update the Samsung firmware as it kept losing the audio over the HDMI. There was a thread on that issue in these forums, or I might not have figured it out.
     
  15. Nov 3, 2009 #15 of 104
    dlfl

    dlfl Cranky old novice

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    My TV is also a Samsung 40", bought in July this year. When did you update your software? The latest update is dated 10/16/09. I've downloaded it but haven't installed it yet.

    Also, at 8pm tonight both tuners started recording HD channels. Shortly after that I went to switch channels with the live TV button and there was no response. I didn't note whether the yellow light responded or not. However after 10 or 20 seconds the remote response returned and all seems OK now. Does anyone else get things like this?
     
  16. Nov 3, 2009 #16 of 104
    spepin

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    I have a similar problem. Not the rebooting issue, but the loss of remote issue. I, too switched one of my S2 devices for an HD. The first time it happened was during initial setup. I attributed it to a glitch and just power cycled the TiVo. It happened again that evening. I returned it to TiVo, who replaced it with another new unit. The new unit has done this several times so far, but over a period of two to three weeks. I thought at first it was going "blind" from compact fluorescent lights, or dimmer flicker, because if I held the remote right up to the front of the DVR, it would start responding again. Tonight however, it lost response and would not regain it. I power cycled once and still had no response. During a subsequent power cycle, I logged on to the forums and saw your post. This time, after the reboot, when it still would not respond, I turned the TV off and as soon as I did, I noticed the amber remote LED come on and it once again responded to the remote. After turning the TV back on, it was still good. I'm glad I saw your post because it's much easier to cycle the TV than the TiVo.

    My setup is 52" Sharp Aquos, but no tuning adapter. I wonder if the IR receiver is getting "blinded" by the LCD backlight. I'm curious how many DVR's TiVo is replacing under warranty for this very problem... The next time it happens, I'll try disconnecting the HDMI cable instead of cycling the TV to test the handshake theory.
     
  17. Nov 3, 2009 #17 of 104
    dlfl

    dlfl Cranky old novice

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    There have been reports of Samsung TV's causing remote interference during a few mins. after turn on. I notice reduced remote sensitivity for a minute or two on mine -- have to aim the remote exactly at the TiVo.

    I have a hunch about the type of remote lockup where the yellow light is still responding: If you punch a lot of remote keys after you notice the lockup I think you actually provoke a reboot. If you just wait (perhaps a minute) the chances are better it will recover. It fits a model of a buffer of remote keystrokes that is building up because the TiVo is too busy to respond. If you exceed the buffer capacity with too many events waiting to be processed, it reboots. Just a theory. Seems like it should just ignore keystrokes once the buffer is full, but no software is perfect. And of course: why does it get so busy it can't respond? One answer is hard disk errors, which require many read/write retries thus slowing the processor down. However, I very much doubt that is the case for my unit, as I see no other symptoms, and it seems unlikely for your case given you've tried two new units.
     
  18. May 1, 2010 #18 of 104
    cstacy

    cstacy New Member

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    I have recently begun seeing these symptoms, also: first the TiVo stops responding to the remote (but the light on the box flashes, so it's hearing it), then TiVo reboots. I have a tuning adapter, and the 1TB external drive from TiVo. I'm on a UPS.

    I've had the unit a little less than a year, and it just started doing this recently.
     
  19. May 3, 2010 #19 of 104
    m_jonis

    m_jonis Member

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    Mine's done this several times but only since I got the TA. Since the 11.0g software update, I've had 3 times where the Tivo stops responding at all. I'll be watching live TV and it will continue to work, but ceases to respond to ANY remote inputs (no Guide, cannot switch to other Tuner, cannot access Tivo Central, etc.)

    Only a reboot of the unit (ie, unplugging in) will let it work again.

    I've got a TivoHD.

    I've even replaced the hard drive in case that was it, but I think it's a software problem and related to the Tuning Adapter.
     
  20. May 3, 2010 #20 of 104
    dlfl

    dlfl Cranky old novice

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    If remote response is missing and the amber light does NOT blink when you hit remote keys, you could have the well know problem of spurious IR from your LCD TV interfering with the remote. This normally only occurs when either (1) the video signal is black or very dark or (2) during TV warmup when the spurious light is greater. To check this out you need to reduce the IR light getting from your TV to the TiVo and/or increase the IR light getting to the TiVo from your remote. (In my case I can just stand right in front of the TV to partially block it, and hold the remote near the TiVo.)

    However, I continue to get occasional lockups where the amber light DOES respond, at least for a while -- until it finally stops responding and the TiVo eventually reboots, or I power cycle it. I'm seeing no other signs of hard drive failure so I too think it's a TiVo software problem, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if it's related to the TA. I think the TA was a desperation fix in response to SDV implementation, and TiVo simply didn't have the time and resources to thoroughly debug its software that interfaces with the TA -- something which would have required extensive field work in several cable systems.
     

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