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Discussion in 'TiVo Mini' started by AZTECF, Nov 16, 2014.
Some people around here might yell at you for that.
Only if somebody intentionally using 3GHz splitters reports issues, and even then it would only be suggestions and information, with some reasons why it could be a problem (or part of one). There would be no yelling involved (I guess some consider providing education, information, and sharing facts to be "yelling")...
Now, OTOH, should somebody come in and state "You need 3GHz splitters, because MoCA operates at higher frequencies than 1GHz", there might be something the person who posted that may consider being yelled at, if they have thin skin. Only the MoCA misinformed/uninformed lead the way in spreading such misinformation.
If somebody came in and stated not using 3GHz splitters would be a problem for all (or implied so), or stated that using 3GHz splitters is some magic bullet for all (or implied so), there might be some "yelling" involved.
The technical details, for those who want to read-up:
The MoCA uninitiated, and/or those who don't bother to take a few minutes to find that MoCA was engineered to work with 860MHz splitters, by means of "powering-through" obstacles, operating at a much greater power level (greater +dB level than CATV/OTA/Satellite normal operating ranges), tend to pass out flawed advice, based on flawed assumptions, resulting in people thinking the "expert advice" must mean they need to buy all new splitters, and replace anything with a rating less than the top-end of MoCA spectrum.
It is utterly wrong, when a whole technology is built to "work with what you already have" (within reason, like having quality splitters and quality coax), only to have its potential time and money saving factors obliterated, by some uninformed/misinformed folk, saying it requires things it does not, or that its performance will be somehow improved, by giving it 3GHz splitters.
There comes a point where any attenuation caused by a splitter's "rating", and the efficacy of any port isolation ratings, are rendered moot, by simply raising the dB the RF is transmitted at. It is not too much different than wireless RF (WiFi) from an AP, being obstructed by a wall, and then that wall being overcome by replacing the AP with one that transmits at higher power (or by increasing the transmitting power higher, as some APs allow). It is a lot cheaper and faster to change/adjust the AP transmit power, than it is to tear out that wall, and replace it with one made of different materials, less likely to weaken the signal.
There have been a few (now discontinued) MoCA kits that didn't perform well without >2GHz splitters. They deserved to be discontinued, as they ruined some of MoCA's best qualities, regardless of them working, so long as you replaced all your splitters to accommodate them.
I've seen only a few posts, where it was reported that somebody "fixed" their MoCA issues with 3GHz splitters (or by using other kludges, like diplexers). In almost every case, I could see other causes for their problems, where they could have fixed the root of the problem. But, once somebody feels they have "fixed" something, it's hard to convince them that they only kludged it, stop them from preaching how 3GHz splitters are a must have, or stop them from suggesting 3GHz splitters to every person with a MoCA problem (or to those who are about to set up MoCA for their first time). There's a lot of one-size-does-not-fit-all and YMMV factors to MoCA. The one thing that MoCA set out to do, right from day one, was to avoid everybody from having to install new coax and/or splitters, just to use MoCA.
All these "MoCA-enabled/enabling/enhanced" splitters on the market are snake oil products, looking to lighten the wallets of the uninformed. If we wanted an ethernet-over-coax standard, that required special splitters, one existed prior to MoCA. It was called HomePNA (the coax variant). Splitter makers are hoping to cash in on misinformation that MoCA doesn't work, or work as good, over "regular/normal" splitters.
I may preach on the subject matter, and am passionate about it. Guilty as changed. But, who doesn't want to yell, when they keep seeing uninformed folk propagating false information?
Satellite splitters may seem like a no-brainer, when you have them around already, or see how cheap you can buy a 3GHz DirecTV splitter for. But, they can (not just in theory) cause just as many issues, as some hope to avoid. Unless it is something as benign as a wall-plate barrel (a TRUE passive), it is best to avoid components made for satellite, for CATV use. They are made under different specs, and have different ratings for things like port isolation, which were tweaked for satellite TV. There are a great many more ratings to a splitter, than just how many GHz it is "rated" for. Some of them are not optimal for CATV alone, and can be even less optimal for CATV+MoCA.
Do what you will, or won't in your own home. I don't care what you use in your own home. That all changes if/when you ask for help, or if I see advice being given, that has potential to do more harm, than help (or cause unwarranted time and money spent on things that need not be done, or things that need not be replaced).
Consider this a PSA. I've said what I have to say. The MoCA standard and specifications back me up, as do the specs on most splitters out there (especially those made for satellite TV applications).
It is possible they were trying to keep a common terminology with the devices used by the Cable Companies. RCN says that TiVo placed a restriction on their mini's so that we cannot purchase and activate a mini. RCN engineer says it is a restriction placed by TiVo.
If you get a Premier Q (4 tuner 1/2 terabyte machine) for $25/mo fee then mini's are $5 a month for the first one and $10 a month for the second.
If you get T6 (which is the RCN name for the 6 tuner 1 terabyte machine) for $40/mo fee then the mini fee is $5/month apiece.
Sounds like a great reason to buy your own equipment and tell RCN to stuff it.
The reason you can't marry purchased equipment with leased is that the Tivo software is set up to only authorize interoperability between devices on the same Tivo.com account. With leased units, Tivo treats those as a separate category and creates Tivo accounts for leased units. The issue is that there is no way to add a purchased Mini to a Tivo.com account for leased units.
RCN can "blame" Tivo for the problem, which is technically true, but RCN also wants to force the subscriber to lease the equipment.
I think some of TiVos MSO partners do allow leased units to be moved to a users account so they can pair them with retail equipment. So if RCN prevents it then it's their choice not TiVo's.
I canceled my TiVo mini service yesterday. Today if I try to reactivate it only gives me options for 5.99 monthly or 149.99 lifetime. Is there something else I need to do to get the $0 lifetime service?
I never blame the employees who tell me this kind of BS. I always figure there is a corporate lawyer who makes a quarter million a year whose whole job is to figure out ways to blame someone else for everything.
I suppose he naturally interpreted the question to mean, "Is Monica Lewinsky under the table at this very moment?".
Okay, I went back and instead of choosing to "REACTIVE" my TiVo Mini, I chose "ACTIVATE A TIVO" from the main page (was signed in) and had to enter the TiVo Mini serial number. It said it activated my account (a little scary since I wasn't sure how and if it started me back on my 5.99/month account). Then I got an email saying that my Lifetime service was activated at $0 and that next time my TiVo Mini connected to TiVo the service could update on my device to Lifetime. I connected the TiVo Mini to TiVo. It seems to have updated to "Lifetime" service in my settings, but so far I can't watch any Shows on My Shows or Live TV. In my online Account is shows, "We're still processing your activation. Try again in 24 hours." So, I'll wait and see if it all goes through. Crossing my fingers hoping it syncs up and works like it's supposed to within the next 24 hours. I'll report back, but this experience seems little different than others. Anyone else have any comments to share?
Force a connection to the TiVo servers on the Mini and on the host DVR and then restart both. That should fix it.
That fixed it. Thanks!
Fishboy - when you cancelled your service, did it take affect right away? My cancellation e-mail says the service will be cancelled on January 18th - this makes me nervous for obvious January 6-related reasons
No. It finished out the time I had paid for, but you may be able to tell them to cancel immediately. They asked me what I was planning to do with the mini... Sell it, give it as a gift to a family member, or just stop using it. If you plan to sell it (hypothetically), they must have a way to cancel immediately.
*phew* TiVo's updated their site to reflect the rumored May 4, 2015 end date: https://www.tivo.com/shop/mini
Looks like I should be good to add (rather than reactivate) on the 19th.
I bought my Mini off of Amazon on Monday. Activated it and, sure enough, free lifetime. Not bad for $139 including the cost of the device.
So, at the very least, Minis purchase from Amazon have the free lifetime. You definitely don't have to buy it from Tivo directly.
I bought mine at a local Best Buy a few weeks ago. Also got free Lifetime on it.
They all get free lifetime. I don't know why people keep questioning this when it has been confirmed time and time again.
If the TiVo CSR's hadn't caused doubt by saying you had to buy it from TiVo, this wouldn't be an issue.
As long as the Mini isn't already active with a non-lifetime account, it will automatically activate with lifetime. It doesn't matter where you bought it or when you bought it.
I just ordered 2 minis on Jan 5th. I called Tivo directly to ask about the Amazon question. I was told at that time that any new mini had to be activated by Jan 6th to get free lifetime. They said the promotion was set to expire for everyone - including if you bought directly from Tivo - on the 6th. Since it was after 5pm on the 5th, there was no way I'd have received it from Amazon on the 6th to activate it, which forced me to pay the higher price and order from Tivo. As it turned out, they offered to throw in a free slide pro remote, which effectively made it an even deal anyway.
However, this is one of the reasons why it gets a bit vague. They can remove the "free lifetime" deal at any time.
True, they could remove it at any time, but I have a feeling they won't. I certainly can understand why you would order from TiVo with the potential deadline looming. If I had been in that situation, I would have done the same thing.
But now we know it wasn't a real deadline, and they have pushed the new "deadline" out to May 4. I don't think that will be a real deadline either. It is likely just a marketing ploy, "Hurry, buy now! This is a limited time offer and won't last long."