DIY 10TB Roamio

Discussion in 'TiVo Upgrade Center' started by jmbach, Nov 17, 2018.

Tags:
  1. ciper

    ciper Active Member

    2,011
    1
    Nov 4, 2004
    Is there a donation link where I can help you get this feature added?
     
    apsarkis likes this.
  2. tommage1

    tommage1 Well-Known Member

    1,164
    258
    Nov 5, 2008
    Ok, have started the process. Figure I will post as I go in case anyone is interested. First of all the 12TB without the adds (cloned from the original 8TB) showed 100% full. 2 HD hours, 19 SD hours remaining. First step was to try the KS 58. Results were very interesting, after running the 58 the drive showed 34 HD hours available, 240 SD hours, 97% full. I THINK Tivo calculated this based on the old days, MPEG2 recordings without all those sub channels. So an hour of HD recordings was 5-10GB. Since I "gained" 32 HD hours I'm going to guess the KS 58 cleaned up or added 150 or more GB. Interesting.

    I then pulled the drive and did one add and addfix using MFST 3.32. Including the "c" switch, 2040 size. The drive now shows 1636 HD hour capacity, 11281 SD hours. Since I only did one add for now 10TB capacity at this point. It seems to be working, connected to Tivo, doing some recording etc etc. I will probably leave it this way for at least a little while, for sure at least until it does a guide update (even though I connected to Tivo the guide was already up to date so it was a short connection). After I run it a day or two if all is well I will pull it and do the 2nd add to get it to the full 12TB. Am debating if I want to run another KS 58 before doing that since I have done one add.
     
  3. tommage1

    tommage1 Well-Known Member

    1,164
    258
    Nov 5, 2008
    Oh, interesting after doing the KS 58 and the one add I show 1636 HD hour capacity. The "normal" 10TB capacity is 1603 or so I think? So mine shows 33 more HD hours. Very interesting since the 58 seemed to add or clean up 32 HD hours when I ran it initially. Hope this is not a problem, does anyone else with a 10TB installed show 1636 capacity?
     
  4. ggieseke

    ggieseke Well-Known Member

    5,531
    645
    May 30, 2008
    2040 vs 2000?
     
  5. tommage1

    tommage1 Well-Known Member

    1,164
    258
    Nov 5, 2008
    Well I first gained 32 HD hours BEFORE I did the add, after running KS 58 on the MFSR created from scratch 8TB. MFST had not been used at all at that time, (no add 2000 or 2040 or 2090). Since the numbers are so close, the 32 hours I gained from that and 33 hours after actually doing the one add (33 hours total, not 32 plus 33) I'm guessing whatever did it is the same thing and happened because of the KS 58 not any MFST command?) The instructions have changed slightly over time. First it said to do 2090 when doing a copy (starting with drive less than 4TB). And to do 2090 with the adds. Some people who did the procedure used 2000 according to their posts. The current instructions say to use 2000 with the copy, 2040 with the add. JMBach explained the numbers a bit in this thread. Perhaps when the instructions were updated (updated MFST version with the "c" switch) the "add" number got changed to 2040 and maybe forgot to update the "copy" number to 2040 from 2000 since that command in the procedure had not changed. Who knows but since you are the MFSR "guy" maybe test an MFSR 8TB from scratch drive, see if you gain 32/33 HD hours after running a KS 58.

    Oh, I actually ran the KS 58 on the 12TB which the original MFSR 8TB had been cloned to. At that point MFST had not been used at all as I mention.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2019
  6. tommage1

    tommage1 Well-Known Member

    1,164
    258
    Nov 5, 2008
    By the way the MFSR created from scratch 8TB has/had been working flawlessly since August 2018. I am keeping it as a backup in case I have any problem with the upgrade to 12TB. Well one issue but it was not MFSR related, I got the four flashing lights one day but figured out it was the PS/AC adapter, problem went away when I changed adapter. I guess the original STARTED to go bad, still providing power but not enough to boot the drive.

    I do think the 8TB and 12TB probably draw more power than the original 500GB drive in the Roamio basic. I do know the 12TB shows more power required in the specs compared to the 8TB (have not checked the original 500GB). Because of this I think I am going to use a 12v 2.5a adapter with this 12, instead of the stock 12v 2.0a adapter. I tested the 2.5A on a "parts" Roamio basic (no subscription and original 500GB drive), it seems to work fine. Heck almost tempting to buy a 12V 3A to be really safe, and maybe linear instead of switching. I think linear is supposed to be more stable, have heard when/if a switching fails it can damage the device it is providing power to?
     
  7. jmbach

    jmbach der Neuerer

    2,856
    390
    Jan 1, 2009
    I have a Liteon adapter that provides 3.33A. Works great with my larger drives.
     
  8. jmbach

    jmbach der Neuerer

    2,856
    390
    Jan 1, 2009
    I am just being conservative with those numbers and have not played around with them to get the ideal size. ggieseke gave me some guidance and will work on fine tuning the number.
     
  9. tommage1

    tommage1 Well-Known Member

    1,164
    258
    Nov 5, 2008
    Is it linear or switching? Linear does seem safer and more reliable but it is not as efficient (plus supposedly switching can cause a hum.) Could use twice as much electricity as a similar spec switching adapter. While Tivos don't use THAT much electricity since they are 24/7 that could add up, especially if someone has multiple Tivos. Of course talking about Tivos that use an AC adapter. The ones that have an internal power supply, I wonder if upgrading to really large drives can strain the power supply? Back when the largest upgrades were 3-4TB probably not much of an issue, now getting into 8/10/12/14 I wonder. Roamio Plus/Pro. Or Premiere, it is possible to use at least an 8TB in a Premiere now I believe.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2019
  10. jmbach

    jmbach der Neuerer

    2,856
    390
    Jan 1, 2009
    Not sure. Here is Digikey link. PA-1041-71IL-LF Lite-On Inc. | Power Supplies - External/Internal (Off-Board) | DigiKey
     
  11. tommage1

    tommage1 Well-Known Member

    1,164
    258
    Nov 5, 2008
    Thanks, I am looking into adapters. Linear is usually WAY heavier than switching. I remember buying a replacement adapter for a video game system. The original was like 12v 1.x amp. It was heavy. The replacement was super light, when I got it I thought "what the heck it this"? Couple ounces maybe. It was switching type, and it did cause a hum.
     
  12. jmbach

    jmbach der Neuerer

    2,856
    390
    Jan 1, 2009
    If mine hums I cannot hear it. But I did not put my ear directly on it.
     
  13. tommage1

    tommage1 Well-Known Member

    1,164
    258
    Nov 5, 2008
    It's not the adapter itself with the hum, the hum will be heard when listening to the device it is powering. So with the video game system would hear hum while playing a game. And with a Tivo you'd hear it while watching a show. I am no expert on this, maybe do a search on linear vs switching adapters, interesting info. Obviously there are different qualities of adapters within the categories too. If your adapter feels pretty hefty it's probably linear, if it's lighter than what you would expect considering the size it's probably switching.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2019
  14. tommage1

    tommage1 Well-Known Member

    1,164
    258
    Nov 5, 2008
    "Switching power supplies gained popularity over the past 40 years because of their high efficiency (> 80%) and small footprint. Basically, switching power supplies take the incoming ac voltage and turn it into a high-frequency 20- to 500-kHz ac voltage that is then stepped down to a lower voltage using a small transformer. The voltage is then rectified, filtered and regulated. The high efficiency translates to less heat produced and more output current in less space when compared to a linear supply. Disadvantages of switch mode power supplies include the remnants of ac noise voltage included in the dc production and electromagnetic interference (EMI) created by the switching transistors used in the supply’s circuitry.

    In almost all industrial applications, this unwanted electrical noise has little or no effect. Common sensors and actuators are robust in design with respect to the supply voltage. Some applications where the undesired noise may have an effect are in *****audio equipment*****, precision measurement devices and possibly some communication systems. When using devices sensitive to dc supply voltage fluctuations in a control scheme, follow the manufacturer’s requirements. Equipment malfunctions due to electrical noise are often difficult to isolate.

    Linear power supplies have been around for as long as ac power. The efficiency is much less than that of a switching supply, usually 40%-50%. The lower efficiency means more waste heat to dissipate. Regulated linear power supplies operate directly using the 50- or 60-Hz ac supply voltage. The lower frequency requires a larger step-down transformer and a larger footprint than a switching supply of the same size. Different input voltages (100-120 Vac and 200-240 Vac) require a different part number or the connection of different primary voltage taps. Linear power supplies are simpler devices than switching supplies, so their reliability can be better and the dc output voltage is free from the high-frequency noise of a switching supply.

    The price of components used in the electronics of a switching power supply keep coming down in price; inversely, the cost of copper in a linear supply continues to go up. For dc supplies with a small output current, linear supplies are usually less expensive. As the output supply current rating increases, the price difference begins to reverse until higher current switching supply become more cost effective than a linear supply."
     
  15. tommage1

    tommage1 Well-Known Member

    1,164
    258
    Nov 5, 2008
    Just FYI I looked at the specs of your 3.33. It lists efficiency as 85%. Which means it is probably switching, they are usually 80% or more according to what I read. A linear adapter would be 40-50% efficiency, again according to what I have read.
     
  16. tommage1

    tommage1 Well-Known Member

    1,164
    258
    Nov 5, 2008
    Am further along in the upgrade to the 12TB now. Last time I just cloned the 8TB to the 12TB and did the two add/addfixes at the same time, did not pull and put in the Roamio after the first add/addfix. And ended up with the problems I mentioned. This time these are steps I used.

    1. Ran KS 58 on the 12TB.
    2. Did ONE add/addfix with the "c" switch and 2040.
    3. Put the drive in the Roamio, let it run for over a day, some new recordings and forced connections, including one that did a guide update.
    4. Pulled the drive and did the second add/addfix. Now it is back in the Roamio being tested (so far so good). Shows 1927 HD hours, 13291 SD, 65% full. I have been doing an MFSInfo -d after each step and taking pictures. The final picture looks different than the first attempt, I have confidence it worked this time. Not sure if running the KS 58 helped, or pulling and testing the drive after the first add/addfix made a difference.

    If anything fails I will post. Last failure came after the drive exceeded the original 8TB. Since I am at 65% now I guess that will happen when I reach 67-68%. Am not going to force the issue with large transfers like I did last time, will just let it happen.

    Found a 12v 3a switching adapter I had sitting around. I think I am going to use it instead of the stock 12v 2a Roamio adapter. Am testing it on my no subscription "parts" Roamio for a day or two. I think safer to use a larger capacity adapter with these larger drives............. Once I did have issues with 8TB in a Roamio basic, the 4 flashing lights. It turned out to be the adapter (stock 2a). At the time I thought maybe the 2a just got old or malfunctioned. But maybe powering the 8TB for months is what caused it to fail, 8TB requires more power than the stock Roamio HD. May have stressed the 2a too much. Anyone considering adapters, make sure the voltage is the same AND the polarity. Extra amperage is ok, good, maybe necessary with large drives, it should only draw what it needs.
     
  17. jmbach

    jmbach der Neuerer

    2,856
    390
    Jan 1, 2009
    My guess is that the power supply that came with the Roamio is a switching power supply.
     
  18. tommage1

    tommage1 Well-Known Member

    1,164
    258
    Nov 5, 2008
    It definitely is. Most adapters sold nowadays ARE switching. There are laws/standards that require most adapters sold now to meet a certain efficiency standard.
     
  19. tommage1

    tommage1 Well-Known Member

    1,164
    258
    Nov 5, 2008
    Just FYI here is a picture of the "final" MFSInfo -d of the 12TB upgrade. Which originally started with a fresh 8TB created with MFSR. The 8TB though created fresh was nearly full when I did the upgrade to 12TB.

    100_3655.JPG
     
    apsarkis likes this.
  20. jmbach

    jmbach der Neuerer

    2,856
    390
    Jan 1, 2009
    That looks correct.

    Since the KS 58 corrected the MFS before you expanded, I don't think you will run into the same issue.

    However, you are one of the first to test it on a MFSR drive that was essentially full. When you get above 67-68% full, then that will be the real test.
     
    apsarkis likes this.

Share This Page