Dishonest, Fraudulent company STOLE $106 from me

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by jcthorne, Sep 15, 2011.

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  1. jcthorne

    jcthorne Well-Known Member

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    Simple transaction, simple case of fraud.

    I bought a second tivo and authorized the charge for $399 and tax to my credit card. The amount was correct in the shopping cart and checkout.

    My receipt, emailed later that day showed they billed $499 and tax. Contacted tivo and was told the actual billing to my cc was $399 and not to worry. I checked with my cc and indeed the authorized amount was $426.

    Get my cc statement and they actually billed $533. This was not authorized and has been reported to the cc as fraud. Its NOT a simple billing mistake as the bill was correct and accounting assured me the amount was correct. They then billed an amount to my cc that was not as agreed. FRAUD. Simple.

    I will contact them again later today but seriously doubt they will resolve while online. If they turn off the tivo because of the billing dispute from the cc, the tivo goes back.
     
  2. jfh3

    jfh3 Active Member

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    Fraud requires intent. Highly unlikely another other than human error involved here. Sounds like the charge was for a new Premiere with lifetime on an existing account and what you were trying to do was put lifetime on a box you already had and the first transaction went through first before the rep saw the error (which explains their comment)

    Give it a couple days to work through the system. If there is still a problem, dispute with the credit card company.

    Not exactly sure why the rant here - would you have posted if the mistake was in the other direction?
     
  3. jcthorne

    jcthorne Well-Known Member

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    Its fraud because there IS intent. The amount of the approved charge was for 426 and was shown on the internet commerce site and verified by a live agent. 426 is also what was authorized against the card with the bank.

    They then charged the cc a different amount. Required a person to make the change intentionally. It is NOT just an error.

    I will be on the phone with Tivo when they open at 7am PT and will report back how they handle the situation.

    For the record, this WAS activation of a new tivo on an existing account. A very straightforward transaction that was completed fully within the internet commerce site and completed correctly. It was modified, contrary to what was authorized, after the fact.

    Fraud is when one thing is agreed and something else was done intentionally. That is EXACTLY what has happened here. If I thought this was a one time incident, I would not have reported it here. There is a long history of Tivo's fraudulent billing and credit card transactions documented here on this site. I reported my case to add to the history and document the ongoing shady business practices.

    Tivo needs to fix these problems with thier business systems. Its been going on far too long. Course, they likely programmed it themselves and it works about as well as other software they sell.
     
  4. welestgw

    welestgw New Member

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    I think you're overreacting, you're complaining of fraud but you have yet to contact Tivo about the mistake. Call them and sort it out, it's much more likely to be a mistake then fraud, as you'd see a pattern of that on here.

    If you call them and they deny any wrong doing, then chargeback the Tivo charge amount. That will get them to make some headway.
     
  5. WhiskeyTango

    WhiskeyTango New Member

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    Way to overreact. You should call the FBI.
     
  6. jfh3

    jfh3 Active Member

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    Be interesting to see what happens after you talk to TiVo. But, no matter what you think, it's not fraud nor part of some grand plan. And you have nothing to show it was done intentionally.

    As for your allegations there are ongoing systemic problems with Tivo's ecommerce systems, there certainly isn't any evidence to support that, even anecdotally, here or anywhere else.

    One of the other posters was correct - you are over-reacting. If you are convinced that you aren't, cancel the sale, stop using the service of such a "corrupt" company, and walk away.
     
  7. randyb359

    randyb359 Active Member

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    never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence because it almost always is the later. What probably happened was someone saw the charge and thought it was wrong so the "fixed" it.
     
  8. smbaker

    smbaker Well-Known Member

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    I don't think 'authorization' means what you think it means. They can authorize any amount they want, it's just to ensure that your credit card has sufficient funds before a transaction occurs. It's to protect the merchant, not you.

    They probably made a mistake. Something went wrong between the time the order was placed (and authorized) and when it was executed. Call them up and they'll fix it.

    (regardless, isn't it funny that in my experience such errors are almost always in the business' favor, and not the customer's favor?)
     
  9. randyb359

    randyb359 Active Member

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    I am not sure that is true. We only hear about it when it is in the businesses favor. when I go through the supermarket checkout I have about as moany items over charge as undercharge. I never complain because i figure it all evens out. I know many people do complain about being overcharged. I never hear people complain they were undercharged.
     
  10. aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

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    I used to tell them if the price is higher or lower. But if it scans at a lower price they give it to you for that anyway so at a certain point there is no reason to bring the lower price to their attention.
    So now I just mention if it scans at a higher price since they give you a dollar for each different product that happens to. Then I'll take that and buy a lottery ticket.

    At least this is the case at the Wegmans I go to across the street from me.
     
  11. jfh3

    jfh3 Active Member

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    It's well past 7 am PT ...
     
  12. jrtroo

    jrtroo Chill- its just TV

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    Once, I ***** a brick when I received my Visa bill and a sandwich ended up posting as $845 instead of $8.45.

    Clearly an error, and I immediately called my cc company. I also stopped by the shop, where they were relieved that I came in to make the correction (I went there 3x per week). They knew through their close that there was a problem with the total amount they received, but once the data is provided to Visa, they could not pull it back to see whom to credit. Visa would not allow that to happen, and forced them to wait for me to complain.
     
  13. smbaker

    smbaker Well-Known Member

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    I'm speaking of my own experiences. I can't think of the last time a billing mistake was in my favor. I can easily think of instances when a billing mistake is in the company's favor. In fact, it currently happens monthly with my comcast bill despite my attempts to correct it.

    I'm not talking of small instances where a clerk might hand you an extra nickle in change during a transaction. I'm talking of systematic billing errors by major companies. It's not that I think there's some major conspiracy here, but rather that there's little effort into correcting errors that are in the company's favor.
     
  14. lessd

    lessd Well-Known Member

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    Ah come on, before you posted you should have attempted to resolved the issue with TiVo, I once got a $39 charge on my (on file with TiVo) credit card, as I only have lifetime TiVos the charge could not be for any TiVo service I had, I did not post that TiVo just took $39 from me, I called TiVo and they could see the charge but could not tell me why it happened, took about 3 days and i got a cr for the $39. Errors happen, and i don't think TiVos CEO gave orders to the CSR to screw any customers they could with extra charges.
     
  15. lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

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    How is that intent? Intent requires motivation that translates into action. In this case, that motivation must either originate from policies at TiVo that encourage or require the employee to over-charge the customer, or else the individual employee responsible for the incorrect charge sought to gain personally from the transaction. If you suggest the latter, then how, exactly, would this individual obtain this revenue? If you are suggesting the former, then given the exposure a publicly traded company, do you really think Tivo, Inc would risk implementing a company-wide policy of imposing fraudulent charges?
     
  16. dlfl

    dlfl Cranky old novice

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    Another very likely possiblity falls in the category of negligence on the part of management, i.e., their policies and procedures are forumulated with good intent but training isn't sufficient that employees always do the right thing, and/or the policies are too complex to be easily followed even with training. This kind of problem easily can happen in any company. In cases where a lot of damage is done by the error (not the present case), a legal action may be required to establish liability of the company.
     
  17. aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

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    Nothing unusual about having an erroneous charge. I've probably had that happen at least once from any merchant I've frequented over the last 29 years of using credit cards. And that includes TiVo. When it happened with TiVo a call to customer service got it straightened out. Which is usually the case with any merchant.
     
  18. daveak

    daveak Series 3 Novice

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    It is way after 7:00. I'm just sayin' :)
     
  19. mattack

    mattack Well-Known Member

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    I have gone back into the supermarket when I realized I was *vastly* undercharged (about $10). IIRC, the club card *did* have the right (discounted) price, even though the cash register seemed to be showing the wrong price during the purchase.. so the cashier was manually "correcting" the price. (BTW, I am not over-emphasizing vastly to imply that I wouldn't go back for a minor undercharge.)

    I realized the problem after the purchase and went back to the customer service desk. They said don't bother, though I'm not sure if they really have that power (though I guess they do, since they have given me back money other times when I was overcharged.. though much less money in those cases).
     
  20. innocentfreak

    innocentfreak Well-Known Member

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    Reminds me of
     
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