Directv Possibly going back to Tivo HD DVR

Discussion in 'DirecTV TiVo Powered PVRs & Receivers' started by raven540, Feb 16, 2007.

  1. MichaelK

    MichaelK Active Member

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    NJ

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    yup- saw earl's and his after i reaplied. Those 2 posts really should have been like 20 pages back and the people plugging the HR20 could have had an easier time. Prior to that all I honestly saw was people saying "it's MPEG4, its MPEG4" we all got that already about 2 years ago- LOL.

    SOunds like the HR20 has a BUNCH of cool minor features while the Current tivo's have a few minor features plus MRV to make it better. MRV is cool new toy to me but honestly I could probably just get buy with getting an extra HR20 for 5 bucks a month more lease fee (that's all the addtional ones cost- right) and get basically MRV. (AND OF COURSE the extra 200 bucks capital cost reduction...)


    anychance that HR20 gets an MRV like feature anytime soon?
     
  2. bonscott87

    bonscott87 Done.

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    It's been posted a few times over the past year but it gets drowned out by the "it's not Tivo so it must suck" crowd. Honestly, if you want good information then DBSTalk (sister site to this one) is the place to go. It will be hard to find here, and with good reason probably since this is a Tivo forum afterall.
     
  3. TyroneShoes

    TyroneShoes HD evangelist

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    Craig, I mean you no disrespect, and I won't discount your list of features, but you might have done that yourself by undermining your own credibility. Accuracy is always much more believable than hyperbole, and thus more convincing and acceptable, at least in the opinion of skeptics, whom I assume are the targets of that information.

    Don't both the stock versions of the HR20 and the HR10 in their own product literature claim "30 HD hours of recording time" or something similar? It's been widely reported that MPEG-4 as implemented by DTV yields about a 30% net efficiency over MPEG-2. Please explain to us how recordings from files that are approximately 30% smaller and that therefore take up approximately 30% less HDD space than MPEG-2 recordings could in any possible way be considered a "doubling" of HD recording time, and I will very happily retract that assessment.
     
  4. newsposter

    newsposter Poster of News

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  5. bonscott87

    bonscott87 Done.

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    I think official estimates are about 30 hours MPEG2 HD vs. 50 hours MPEG4 HD. So it's not quite doubling. But also, as we all know, depends on what you record. If you record a lot of sports that will take up more space then a sitcom. And 1080i takes up more space then 720p. So it's a moving target.
     
  6. TyroneShoes

    TyroneShoes HD evangelist

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    OK, if it's 50 hours vs. 30, that's a factor of 1.666, which is somewhat more in line with what DTV is doing compression-wise, but 2/3 is still pretty far from 1/2, so hyperbole still rules in that original assessment. But that's still a good thing, and a true advantage point for the HR20. That number may be based also in that the original drive is a bit larger, is it not, in the HR20? Of course the addition of just about any size second drive to any HR10 kind of negates either capacity advantage nearly completely.

    But with your permission, if I may let me clarify for others some statements that might be a bit misleading:

    It's true, it does depend on what is recorded, but not so much on the content as what bit rate it is being sent at. Bit rates do vary in ATSC and DVB MPEG-encoded streams, but not very significantly based on content, and not very significantly based on whether they are 1080 or 720, and in fact usually not very much percentage-wise within a particular stream, at all, on the order of about 5% from static shots to action shots.

    And true, it takes 8/7ths more bits to do 1080 equivalent to 720 as far as the level of potential artifacting goes, but that does not mean that an NBA game at 720 takes up 7/8ths of the space that it would at 1080. The bit rates are normally set by the broadcaster or program originator, and while what format they are using is a small factor in that highly-arbitrary decision, there are many larger factors, including how many bits are available. And the potential difference ONLY applies to 1080 that is not dumbed-down after the fact by DBS vendors (ahem!).

    IOW, one CBS station may set their SMPTE310 encoding at 12 mb/s for the primary stream while another may encode at 14. But that rate doesn't change significantly from "Two and a half Men" to "NFL Sunday" on the same station. In fact, the aggregate bit rate could actually be more on the sitcom, or not. True, it takes more bits to encode action with an equivalent artifacting rate, but no one fine tunes things on the fly based on content, or that closely. Broadcasters set it for "one size fits all", and forget it. And so there is rarely much significant difference between video that takes lots of bits to encode and that that doesn't as far as the actual bit rate that is broadcast.

    One exception is stat-muxed streams. For instance, FOX stat-muxes their feeds, so during prime time the rate can vary between 9 and 12 mb/s with constant wild swings a few seconds apart. But that doesn't track the action on the main feed, it varies depending upon the bit demands of the aggregate action on all feeds in the multiple-program transport stream.

    As ironic as it might sound, that means your local FOX station's HD broadcast of SD-produced program "Tyra Banks" at 4 PM will hover around the rate set by the local broadcaster, which can be 15 mb or more, while "Bones" in prime time might only average about 10 or 11, and it will consequently take significantly less HDD space than the SD syndie show. Doesn't seem quite fair, does it?

    So while "2/3 more hours = a doubling of HDD capacity" is pretty far from accurate, what is much more far from accurate is an assumption that sports will take up more space on your HDD than a sitcom, or that an hour of 720p will take less space than an hour of 1080i. For that to be even theoretically true it would depend on things being done in a very specific manner, and in a manner that is not commonly applied in the real world.

    Could these be only opinions? Guesses? Half-understood conclusions? Sorry, but no. They are based in understanding the actual physics involved and the methods commercially employed, and come from first-hand information.
     
  7. bonscott87

    bonscott87 Done.

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    Wow. All I was saying is that it's listed at 50 hours but that will vary. Could be less, could be more. But what you said works too. :up:
     
  8. MichaelK

    MichaelK Active Member

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    I headed over there to start reading- looks like I need a few weeks to read and digest what directv is currently doing...
     
  9. newsposter

    newsposter Poster of News

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    is it 'step sister' site since there are different owners now?
     
  10. Nov 4, 2007 #610 of 625
    Cudahy

    Cudahy New Member

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    New story on the turnover to Malone says it's being held up by concern over Directv exclusive sports contracts. No word about how long this might last.
    Got another phone message from Directv last night trying to get me to give up my HDTivo.
     
  11. Nov 4, 2007 #611 of 625
    Budget_HT

    Budget_HT Heavy User (of TiVo)

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    Did they make you a no-cost-to-you replacement offer? :)
     
  12. Nov 4, 2007 #612 of 625
    purple6816

    purple6816 New Member

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    They offered to replace all my tivo's for free. Who is getting the better deal?
     
  13. Nov 5, 2007 #613 of 625
    louiss3000

    louiss3000 New Member

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    HDTivo's or SDs as well?
     
  14. milominderbinder

    milominderbinder New Member

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    Even if you read every page of the HR20 manual you would not know about the:

    144 Undocumented HD DVR PLUS Tips & Tricks

    This can help you with the new terminology:

    ● TiVo Users Survival Guide

    See the HD DVR FAQ for much more.

    Did you download the new release this weekend that add the backdoor for a real TiVo style Skip and the ability to play videos from your PC?

    - Craig
     
  15. milominderbinder

    milominderbinder New Member

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  16. Philly Bill

    Philly Bill Everyday is Saturday

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    Rotonda...
    [​IMG]
     
  17. nrc

    nrc Cracker Soul

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    Actually they didn't. At least as far as was publicly announced they only agreed to drop their then current infringement suits without prejudice. Without prejudice meaning that they reserved the right to bring the same suit again.

    There's no doubt that this is a defensive move by DTV. Without it and with a strong judgement against Dish TiVo would have had them over a barrel in 2010. This doesn't necessarily give them a free pass, TiVo's patent will have held up in court while Replay's is (AFAIK) untested, but it will probably make other targets more attractive.

    In any case, this should be considered a fork stuck in any hopes of a future DirecTV TiVo.
     
  18. Mark Lopez

    Mark Lopez Just click ignore

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    True, but ease of doing it should also be considered. I just bought a 1TB eSATA drive for my HR20. Plugged it in, rebooted and presto tons of space. No hacking, no opening the case, just plugged it in and done.
     
  19. milominderbinder

    milominderbinder New Member

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  20. herdfan

    herdfan New Member

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    NDS makes the smart cards that D* uses.

    It says nothing about DVR's.
     

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