Directv Possibly going back to Tivo HD DVR

Discussion in 'DirecTV TiVo Powered PVRs & Receivers' started by raven540, Feb 16, 2007.

  1. 20TIL6

    20TIL6 BaDoop BaDoop BaDoop

    Sep 7, 2006
    Cypress, TX


    I'm sorry. I forgot to "complete" my posting efforts. By your example I should have posted that I've had no problems with the 9.1 and 9.2 upgrades to my TiVo S3 and HD units over on the dbstalk forum. Exactly which forum over there would my information belong? I'm guessing the HR20 forum. I'm sure my post over there would be well received and full of value for the members over there. :rolleyes:
  2. Rigelian

    Rigelian New Member

    May 21, 2003
    If you read these forums, and if you experienced the 6.x upgrade, it appears that a number of HR10s have encountered glitches that have caused missed recordings. The 6.x upgrade was so buggy that a number of users refused to allow their Tivos to upgrade to it. I won't even mention the number of programs I missed from the someone cancelled your programming error that plagued me for a couple of weeks. It seems that that error has returned for some users. I find it odd that people who have experienced problem on their Tivo's seemed shocked and surprised if a problem like this happens on a few HR20s. In the case of the Directivo this was a product that has been on the market for a considerable amount of time.
  3. bonscott87

    bonscott87 Done.

    Oct 3, 2000
    You're still lost, but it's ok. It was a joke directed at the likes of RS4 and his DirecTV hate club. See, they post all the time how terrible the HR20 is (despite never using one) and site posts of problems as evidence of how terrible it is.

    Then when someone posts "hey, it's bad that some people have problems, but for another side of the story I haven't had any problems" they are called DirecTV shrills and employees. Like it's totally impossible for someone to like a product other then Tivo. Parish the thought.

    Then it gets pointed out that there are users of Tivos that have problems too as evidence that every product has problems. But that gets turned aside by showing polls of how Tivo users really would prefer Tivo over the HR20 and "but look, DirecTV is evil for kicking poor Tivo to the curb, why won't they listen to us!!!"

    And thus it continues as seen by 30+ pages in this thread.

    So the joke here was that a recent update to the Tivo stand alone line has caused many problems for some people but little notice by the haters. If this were to happen on the HR20 the haters would be out in full force about how amateur the DirecTV programmers are, how it's a beta product and how could they have ever thought of releasing such crap, see Tivo could have done it better.

    But the same thing happens to Tivo, 8 year veteran of the DVR and nary a noise. It's ok because mama Tivo can do no wrong, she loves us and we just ignore people with problems, it never really happened. But bad old Uncle DirecTV is evil, evil I tell you no matter what!!!

    This really could be a 4 part mini-series on the Soap network someday, it will make millions! :up:
  4. terpfan1980

    terpfan1980 It's Just TV TCF Club

    Jan 28, 2002
    Xbox Live:...
    Worse still, RS4 and friends are constantly beating up on the HR20 and praising the HR10 and DirecTV TiVo based boxes even while another active thread lately is complaining of the 'someone in your household' cancelled the recording issue for missed season pass recordings on the HR10-250.

    Ooops, that oh so perfect HR10-250 isn't that perfect.

    As Bonscot and others have pointed out, there are plenty of people that felt forced into abandoning the DirecTV DVR with TiVo boxes because the boxes had been neglected and updated versions that were released so badly broke the boxes that they stopped recording, deleted recordings mysteriously, recorded 0 minutes of recordings, and a host of other issues that caused people to turn on TiVo.

    I don't claim to know that all of those problems were TiVo's fault, or were the fault of DirecTV. I would hazzard a guess that DirecTV is largely to blame, but it doesn't matter as all myself and many others have ever really wanted is DVRs that work reliably.

    I left Dish network long ago because of bad experiences with the Dishplayer boxes. Those boxes started out ok but kept getting worse and there was nothing but finger pointing between Dish and Microsoft. It took Dish many years to even come close to putting out something as stable as the TiVo based DirecTV receivers had been, but then again Dish seems to have violated some TiVo patents in doing that. Oooops for them.

    Really, I don't care about Dish at this point as I like the programming I get from DirecTV, and though I wish I could have the same programming at about $30 less a month, that just ain't gonna happen (not from Dish, not from FiOS, not from Comcast, not from anyone....) and in the meantime the HR20 has improved by leaps and bounds.

    The HR20 is not a bad machine, despite what some DirecTV haters think. It is not a TiVo, but that is not necessarily a bad thing.

    I'm still a fan of TiVo, still hold some stock in the wife's IRA, and hope it does well in the long term. I'd love to see TiVo develop a box that would work with both Dish and DirecTV, but they just don't seem inclined to do so, so in the meantime I'll go with whomever can provide me the best selection of HD programming at a price that doesn't leave my rear end sore every day.

    The HR10 can't receive the new channels that I'm watching on the HR20, so it sits in the other room where my wife and daughter use it primarily as an SD receiver with lots of storage. If it screws up, I'm gonna hear it badly, so I pray it doesn't. If it does screw up, it is going to be replaced by an HR20 for sure.
  5. RS4

    RS4 New Member

    Sep 2, 2001


    Actually, I feel quite vindicated. :) My point all along was that DirecTV rushed the HR20 to market without thinking about the folks that were going to use the box. I felt all along that because of the time constraints and the focus by DirecTV, their box was not anywhere near the ease of use of a Tivo.

    So, my feeling has been that the HR20 is a distant second to the folks who know Tivo. But, we've had a group of evangelists from the HR20 crowd that tried to convince us that it was as good as or better then Tivo. But, of course the polls and threads here, on dbstalk, and other internet sites confirm exactly what I thought - Tivo is still number 1 rated dvr.

    Now Scott and his crowd boasts about the second-rated HR20. They gleefully come over to this site and point out how they are spending hours and hours enjoying all of the new mpeg4 HD channels. They point out how much DirecTV loathes those of us who haven't converted to their way of thinking. That's fine, they can continue their childish bullying.

    For now, I'll keep looking for a Tivo killer, because it's damned sure that DirecTV has only come out with second best. Until I find something better then Tivo, I will stick with it, because in this case I know I won't be happy with anything else.
  6. JoeTiVo

    JoeTiVo New DirecTivo, when?

    Jun 25, 2001
    Pewaukee, WI
    I agree with a lot of what you said. Tivo is still better at the game. However, our hands are being forced. If you want to stay with D* and you want to record all the HD available, there's no choice. If you want to stay with D* and record only the MPEG2 channels, you have a choice, but probably not for long. Once D* pulls the plug on the MPEG2 feeds, and they surely will to free up bandwidth, the only choice to record HD on D* will be the HR20/HR21.

    I saw what was coming and decided to make the switch on my terms while I was able to get a good deal on the new hardware. I still miss my Tivo though. And I'll never give up my vanity 'TIVOGUY' license plates. :)
  7. terpfan1980

    terpfan1980 It's Just TV TCF Club

    Jan 28, 2002
    Xbox Live:...
    Your opinion only there Ronald. Your opinion only. And perhaps the opinion of a few people that answered a poll at some point in time.

    Not necessarily the opinion of many others that are happy with the HR20, happy with remote booking, happy with DirecTV on Demand, and very happy with a slew of new hi-def channels that are showing up on their boxes.

    Second best in my household is my Vista MCE box.

    Third best is my Slingbox.

    Fourth is the position of the TiVo based boxes.

    And that comes from someone that holds some stock in TiVo and would love to see them get off their butts and come out with a box would plug in like a Slingbox Pro and grab and record the HD signal off *any* HD device, including a DirecTV H20 receiver. But then I'd have to add the caveat that I'd like that to happen at a reasonable price so I wouldn't feel ripped off at paying $13 to $20 a month for guide data that is already there on the DirecTV box.
  8. SullyND

    SullyND L: 31-14 (10-2) TCF Club

    Dec 30, 2004
    Chicago Burbs
    You understand that this is a TiVo site and not a DirecTV site, correct? Whereas Ronalds opinion is his "opinion only" your "few" and "many" are fact. Funny how that works.

    There is no reason that those features which you mention users being happy with could not be offered on a TiVo-based device. In fact, DirecTV will be offering remote booking on DirecTiVos and this is a feature they could have activated years ago.

    So what you'd like to see is a single-tuner standalone TiVo which can record HD. Do you really think there is a market sufficient to support it's cost?

    ComcasTiVo is the model that will make the most sense for TiVo going forward IMHO.

    Got DirecTV? Got an HR20? Like TiVo? Pay an additional fee to have TiVo on that box (I would gladly pay 2x my DVR fee for TiVo and it would still be a deal)
  9. bonscott87

    bonscott87 Done.

    Oct 3, 2000
    I like you, I really do. You still don't "get" it. Nobody is trying to convince you that the HR20 is better then Tivo. I may personally feel that way but it doesn't matter what I feel. The only posting going on here is to simply fight the FUD that the HR20 is a piece of crap. *You* may feel it is (despite never even using one I might add) but people want honest opinions. On both sides. Is it so hard for you to grasp that many, many people are doing just fine with their HR20s? Is it?

    Plus the fact that if you want the new HD channels you have no choice?

    Truth hurts I guess. My wife and I completely enjoyed watching our hockey team in HD last night for the first time this season. MPEG4 of course. Getting that hockey game in HD trumps anything else my friend. Anything. Maybe not for you, but is does for us. Getting dozens of season passes in HD now trumps anything. Anything.

    I really don't get this thing you have about "second rated". So people can't like something that isnt' top rated? If we all used "top rated" things there wouldn't be a variety of options out there.
    So if Toyota is the top rated car, are you telling me I can't enjoy my Ford or Kia?
    If OS10 is the top rated operating system, you're telling me I can't enjoy my PC?
    If the Wii is the top rated gaming console, I can't enjoy a PS3?
    If Pioneer has the top rated HDTVs, I can't enjoy my Hitachi?
    If iPod is the top rated music player I can't enjoy a Creative MP3 player?

    All you are doing is putting down and making fun of people that simply find it ok to use something else other then Tivo. Top rated or not. In my personal situation, in my home, the best of it is actually better then our Tivo experience. Again, just us.

    Your reasoning just doesn't ever make sense and it shows. What do I care if Tivo is the top rated DVR? Does that in any way effect my use or possible enjoyment of any other DVR out there from the HR20 to Media Center to Replay to Dish ViP? Of course it doesn't.

    But *YOU* keep telling people that because Tivo is rated #1 that there is no way they could ever use something else?

    And it's been said over and over again. If the features of Tivo are your #1 thing and nothing else matters then make the move. This isn't hidden from anyone, especially in this forum.

    You really do need to get a dose of reality my friend. A big dose of it.

    Excellent. Please sign up for cable, get your Series 3 with 1-3 year commitment and be happy. It's getting old, it really is.
  10. nickhershman

    nickhershman New Member

    Oct 25, 2007
    In summary, if you want to sticking with TiVo for D*:

    * you can record SD and MPEG-2 as of now.
    * you cannot record MPEG-4 unless TiVo and D* get back together.
    * MPEG-4 is going to rule and the rest will be gone, sooner or later.

    So, I think I am going to prepare leaving D* sooner or later. Though Comcast won't be able to match D*'s quality when everything on D* becomes MPEG-4 because they cannot simply free up their bandwidth by canceling all their current analog users...

    Our hope to enjoy best HDs and TiVo in the future is either 1) TiVo and D* get back together or 2) Comcast closes analog service.

    Neither seem to happen very soon but unlike #1, #2 is going to happen eventually for sure.
  11. terpfan1980

    terpfan1980 It's Just TV TCF Club

    Jan 28, 2002
    Xbox Live:...
    Uh, I don't claim that 'few' and 'many' are facts. I used generalized terms because it can't be known for sure what the real numbers are and I don't care to over-estimate the number of people that claim to be fans of one system over the other, or don't claim to be fans of one over the other.

    My point was that many people that answered those polls one way before may have changed their mind long since answering the polls. As more features are added to the HR20, as more channels are added in MPEG4 and available to users of HR20s, and as people become more familiar with HR20s and use them reliably over time, their demand for an MPEG4 TiVo based box goes down.

    People have found work-arounds to the dual live buffer issue (record two programs simultaneously as an example), so complaints about that issue have been falling by the way-side though many people would still tell you that is still the most requested feature that simply *must* find it's way into the HR20's feature set. If it does, then many people that have been clamoring for TiVo based boxes might not see as much need for same.

    Some people (again, with a generic term there) really feel that they must have the TiVo wish list feature.

    Some people really feel that they must have Suggestions and ability to Thumbs up or Thumbs down programs.

    But, those last few requests really start falling by the wayside when you ask people if they'd trade away channels in order to get them.

    One of the flawed polls that RS4 (I'll stick with calling him Ronald for now...) cites is one in which someone hypothetically asks if an MPEG4 compatible TiVo box was offered would people trade away the HR20. Great poll. It does show that people really do like TiVo and would like to have an MPEG4 compatible TiVo box, but sadly it's a hypothetical and not real world at all. There is no MPEG4 compatible TiVo based box and there are no current plans for same, be it a standalone box (as I proposed and you pooh-poohed) or a box that is a combo DirecTV receiver + TiVo based DVR. Given an opportunity to trade an HR20 for an MPEG4 compatible TiVo box I *might* trade away the HR20, but I'd really need to know what other features are coming for both sets of boxes before I could make that decision.

    Personally I don't need TiVo suggestions. I don't use 'em at all. Never cared for 'em at all. I don't want my DVR recording 24x7 or close to it. I don't need it to suggest some Spongebob Squarepants like show because my daughter was watching that, and I also don't need it to suggest a Taxicab Confessions like show because I was watching {oh, alright, I'll admit that getting a suggestion along those lines might be fun, but I'm full well capable of finding my own adult entertainment shows without help from TiVo}

    I don't really need wish lists.

    I would like to have dual live buffers, but I can live without them.

    So, if you ask me to trade away the HR20 in favor of a box that has the same features that an HR10 currently has, even when/if remote booking actually shows up for it, I'm not sure I'd make that trade.

    If you asked me to make that choice back when those polls were first up, you'd probably have gotten a completely different answer though (not necessarily for me though as I really did go into owning/using an HR20 with an open mind and didn't assume it was the same box as an HR10 and didn't expect it to be exactly the same as some have).

    True. At some mythical point in the future we've been promised remote booking type features for the HR10. I ain't holdin' my breath though. It took DirecTV + TiVo a long time to come out with the 6.x version that caught the boxes up (somewhat) with features that were in the DT (dual-tuner) series boxes. TTG (TiVo to Go) and MRV (multi-room viewing) are still no where to be found and aren't even suggested as possilble for DirecTV users.

    What happens if TTG type features and MRV features do come to HR20 boxes? Will people that have complained for years about the lack of those features really want an HR10 type box then? Or, will they give up their HR20 boxes when you pry them from their cold dead hands?

    According to some Ronald like people there must be. People that HAVE to have TiVo and want DirecTV's slate of HD channels.

    Heck, the box doesn't even need a tuner in it. It needs a decoder/encoder in it, needs to accept HDMI input and Component input and that's it. Also obviously needs the IR blaster to control the remote channel changing. i.e., an update of the original TiVo boxes.

    Sadly, I expect that people would ***** and moan about the lack of dual input support, and they'd probably complain about the hi-costs of the guide/service for the box. The monthly subscription fee would probably cause many people to back away from getting such a box when they could just as easily get themselves a dual-tuner, MPEG4 compatible, DirecTV on demand supporting, remote booking supporting, DirecTV DVR (i.e., HR20/21).

    Never said otherwise. It makes me sad that is the case, but yes, Comcast (and other cable companies) seems to be the direction that TiVo is headed into. I wish that they'd stay more provider independent, but they need the partnership with the providers really, so I understand why that is the case.

    You may say that as a hypothetical, but many people just won't do it. They don't want to pay that much more 'just for TV'.

    Heck, there's enough people bitchin' and moanin' about paying a $5 up-charge for the new HD extra pack. It's not like you'll get those peeps to pay much more for Tivo service.
  12. MichaelK

    MichaelK Active Member

    Jan 10, 2002


    I'd pay it in a heart beat.

    actually if there was such an option today I'd go back to Directv from Cable right now. But FOR ME right now tivo's UI out-weighs the current HD advantage that Directv has over my cable provider.

    Directv could also win me back if the HD advantage they have continues to grow or if they add some really cool features to their homebrew DVR. (sounds like their version of downloads like amazon unbox is almost ready to go.)
  13. MichaelK

    MichaelK Active Member

    Jan 10, 2002
    here's what I get out of the pissing match:

    1) what makes the HR20 better is it can do MPEG4. No one seems to argue that it has better features. So doesn't that play into the tivo lovers hands?
    2) the Tivo lovers seem to be telling the HR20 lovers (or defenders or fact checkers depending on your point of view) that this is a tivo fan site and the HR20 guys should respect that. What I take from that is that there's going to be a certain amount of bravado here towards tivo and the HR20 folks should understand that.

    Do you guys go to the Yankee fan forum and start fights with the Yankee fans that say the Yanks are best and the Red Sox suck? Clearly you could argue empirically that the Sox are better at the moment since they made it further. Yet I'm pretty sure that some Yankee sites would have such posts. What would you think of a guy who was a professed Red Sox fan that had to fight with the Yankee fan's on the issue? I'd think he's a prick- why even get involved. it's like bickering for the sake of bickering. Now go to or and have that fight and it makes sense. These sorts of threads really belong at a more 'neutral' place in my humble opinion. Like AVS or DBStalk or whatever. But this is the tivo place. So many here just don't want to hear it.

    If you are trying to 'set the record' straight for some unsuspecting person trawling the net looking for a dvr- I really dont think it's necessary. If they aren't intelligent enough to realize this is a tivo fan site and the views will be slanted then they probably aren't going to understand much of the arguments anyway.

    Just my 2 cents. I'm really not invested in the argument one way or the other. I left my HR10 at Directv last year for S3's on cable but I might just have Directv with HR20's come spring training time.
  14. Cudahy

    Cudahy New Member

    Mar 21, 2001
    If a change in ownership wasn't about to happen it's pretty clear that the only choice for Tivo fans who also want to stay with Directv is to either give up Tivo or switch to cable. It' should become clear before the mpeg2 channels are dropped whether Malone taking over will make difference, probably by next spring. Anyone who wants both should just wait and see.
  15. Mark Lopez

    Mark Lopez Just click ignore

    Jan 1, 2000
    Hondo TX
    Vindicated? :confused: You have still yet to post a single negative HR20 point that can't be equally said about Tivo

    Rushed to market? You mean like the HR10 was with it's zillion bugs (that many are still there and the new ones)?. :rolleyes: And perhaps they did think about the folks that would be using it and understand that most don't give a hoot about what name is stamped on it as long as it works (which it does).

    Translation - I'm a Tivo lemming and I don't have the free will to act on my own and actually try the thing I have been bashing for months.

    Funny how I go away for a week and find you still spewing the same baseless FUD. Surely you can come up with something new, no? <sigh>
  16. Matt L

    Matt L Member

    Aug 13, 2000
    Flushing, MI
    Give me a break, if anything it is a perfect example of free will. He CHOOSE to remain with the HR10-250. Did you choose to switch? Did D force the HR20 into your hands? No, you choose to use it. Your free will.

    I love the way people like you toss around the comment "try the thing you are bashing" when we can't without being stuck for years with a piece of equipment we may hate or for that matter love. It would seem to me if D had a great product they would not need the requirement, it should stand on it's own. 2 years is a long time as technology quickly evolves. You do believe in technological evolution don't you?
  17. samo

    samo New Member

    Oct 7, 1999
    I don't know about "bravado", but if you have at least some objectivity left, you would see that, indeed, HR20 has more and better features than HR-10. Some of these features TiVo implemented in Comcast version of the software (perhaps at request of the Comcast to be able to compete with satellite).
    If you would try to be objective, you would also mention that TiVo requires you to either prepay or commit for at least a year and if TiVo "had a great product they would not need the requirement, it should stand on it's own."
    Besides, 2 year commitment is to the minimum level of the programming - not to the HR-20. You are free to return and/or exchange any hardware during these 2 years.
  18. ShiningBengal

    ShiningBengal Curmudgeon Emeritus

    Mar 19, 2001
    If the internal drive on the HR20 fails, the system goes down, with or without an external drive. Then, pray tell, what do you do with your eSATA drive?

    Presently, there is no way a user can replace the internal drive on his own, even ignoring the fact that as a lessee you have no authority to modify property that doesn't belong to you.
  19. sjberra

    sjberra New Member

    May 16, 2005
    Why would you want to replace the drive on your own, just call D*, have them send a new HR20, install esata drive on new hr20 and you are back in business, same as with a leased HR10.

    Besides with the Esata drive installed on the HR20, the internal drive is turned off and is not in use, if the external drive fails, power off, unplug and boot and you are back in business.
  20. RS4

    RS4 New Member

    Sep 2, 2001

    The only significant feature that the HR20 has is mpeg4. Other then that, I believe that Tivo has had all of the other features on their stand-alone products for some time, but DirecTV would not turn them on the DTivos.

    And of course the huge differences between the Tivo commitment and DirecTV is that Tivo offers a 30-day trial while DirecTV has absolutely nothing. Plus Tivo has a 1-year plan and a lot can happen in this market in a year.

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