Directv Possibly going back to Tivo HD DVR

Discussion in 'DirecTV TiVo Powered PVRs & Receivers' started by raven540, Feb 16, 2007.

  1. Billy66

    Billy66 Again with shoelaces

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    Dec 15, 2003

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    RS4,

    Don't put me in a group and I won't put you into one.

    BTW, it was my son and what I wrote is true, not insinuations, reality. cramer didn't actually try to see if his parents would find it intuitive, he based that on what he knows about them, it wasn't me cracking at his parents, it's his representation. What I wrote is true. Cooper picked it up right away and has no trouble with either remote. His problem comes when it's time to read, but he recognizes his shows, plays them, goes back to the list and picks another etc.

    Again, you have some agenda against a group "you guys" I claim no part of that group, just like I don't claim part of your "us" group either. That's your division and you are making it. Apply it where you need to, but it doesn't fit me.
     
  2. 20TIL6

    20TIL6 BaDoop BaDoop BaDoop

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    Sep 7, 2006
    Cypress, TX
    Well, one thing is for sure. Kids are amazing. They don't over-think the interface. Cooper, what a great name. My Wyatt, 6, has been mouse clicking (Windows and Mac), and TiVo'ing for a few years now. In fact, just this morning he commented on how the Series 1 does not have folders. He talks tech all the time, and I fear I have ruined him. :eek:
     
  3. 94SupraTT

    94SupraTT New Member

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    Feb 17, 2005
    TN...
    Thats fine. When they are I might switch to a HR20. Then again I might not. My Bears had 5 game scheduled for national broadcast but it looks like it might end up being 7. I don't plan on getting a HR20 just to see maybe 7-9 Bears games in HD. Also, I don't like having to pay the $10 fee even if I don't subscribe to HD. I like having my HR10 and not having to pay a $10 just to have it.
     
  4. RS4

    RS4 New Member

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    Sep 2, 2001
    Indianapolis...

    I'm glad your son can use the HR20. Whether you admit it or not, the insinuations were there. And again, you may not claim to be part of 'them', you still come across that way.

    This is a Tivo forum. Many of us love the Tivo and feel strongly enough about it that we haven't found another product yet that we think will replace the Tivo. It's perfectly fine to discuss the HR20 if you are honest about it, but we don't need all of the 'put downs' that seem to come with the discussions.

    To many of us the Tivo is more important then the supplier of the video. Yes, we are biased, but we are in a Tivo group and that is what you should expect. At the same time, we're more than happy to direct folks over to the dbstalk forum when there are questions about the non-Tivo-branded products. We certainly seem to be more willing to point out the discrepancies than many of the HR20 lovers, which again is something I guess is to be expected.
     
  5. Billy66

    Billy66 Again with shoelaces

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    Dec 15, 2003

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    Yep, come to think of it, he is clearly better operating the Home Theater than anyone other than myself. He exceeded the abilities of his grandparents a while back and eclipsed his mother recently. :D I'm still king of the nerds though. :)

    Cooper is a good name. It suits him. It was his mother's birth name so we carried it to his first.
     
  6. Billy66

    Billy66 Again with shoelaces

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    Dec 15, 2003

    The insinuations are yours then RS4. It's cramer that came to his own conclusion about his parents. What I presented about Cooper is true. If there's an insinuation there, it's that cramer is underestimating his parents.

    Either way, I've said this to you personally a bunch. You aren't more "us" with the tivo interface than I am and I'm not part of any of "them". This is YOUR division. I'm just learning and sharing about DVR experiences in a way that the moderators and proprietors have tacitly blessed. I'm sorry their vision of their forum doesn't match what you feel it should be.
     
  7. sluciani

    sluciani TiVowner Since '99

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    Apr 21, 2003
    Westchester...
    Please speak for yourself, and not TiVo users in general. I loved and used TiVos non-stop from 1999 to March of this year, but if I had a choice today between an MPEG-4 HR10 and the HR20, I'd stick with the HR20 in a heartbeat.

    E.g., I set up about 20 Seasons Passes for the fall season this morning in the time it took me to page through one week's worth of GUIDE data. Less than 5 minutes from start to finish, including conflict resolution. /steve
     
  8. cramer

    cramer Member

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    Aug 14, 2000
    Raleigh,...
    Unless you know my parents (which I highly doubt), you have no reason to even open your mouth. Since you don't know them at all, anything you say is just a random guess. As I said, they hit the ground running with the HDVR2. The 10 year old Sony SAT-B2 in the guest room -- which I still say has the best UI of any standard DTV receiver -- isn't as obvious to them. (and the fact that it's too old to map the locals to their natural channel only adds to it.) They don't even use the receiver's channel guide; they use the TV guide from the newspaper the same as they have for many decades. I'm not saying they are representative of all of DTV's 16mil customers, but they're a better match than we are -- we use computers; we know about the Tivo Community Forums (and DBSTalk); we're technology savy people -- our VCRs have never flashed 12:00.

    Tivo, Inc. has done many usability studies -- with actual real people. That's why the tivo (patented) peanut remote (not that I'm fixated on remotes :)) is the shape that it is, why the buttons are where they are, why those are the buttons that are there, why there are actual words on it[1], etc. Overshoot correction was born out of usage feedback showing people rewinding after fast forwarding. The setting has been adjusted several times to get it "just right" -- where the majority of people are popped back pretty much to exactly where they want to be. Tivo has the benefit of a decade of experience. They also have to make customer friendly products, or no one will buy them. DTV/NDS have relatively zero experience and can wave their monopoly wand over marginal products -- you'll like it because that's all there is.

    Has DTV done any usability studies for the HR20? Are they collecting any kind of usage data? (Tivo may have a patent or two in this area, which means "h*** no.") Are they even listening to their customers? (missing features, how much it "sucks", etc.)

    [1] Actual conversation I had last Christmas when I took a Series 3 home with me... "How do I enter a dash?" "Look at the remote. *pause* What's printed just above the skip button?" Btw, that's also on the original DSR6000 remote... from 7 years ago... long before tivo was doing ATSC.
     
  9. Billy66

    Billy66 Again with shoelaces

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    Dec 15, 2003

    You brought them up and I said nothing about them but others took your insinuations and made them mine. The words came from your mouth.

    You're right, your parents aren't representative. Not any more so than my 4 year old yet you used them, your own parents, to illustrate that the HR20 isn't intuitive. Not because you watched them fail, but because you believed they would without giving them a shot. Apparently you know the universe of their abilities.

    Don't bring your parents up, stating what they can't do without even giving them a chance, and wonder why someone might feel that you are underestimating them.

    BTW, this is what *you* said about *your* parents.

    Others have set it in front of children without a manual and have had no trouble. I'll assert that you are underestimating them and I don't need to know them. I only need to know the skills of an average person.

    Sorry about the remote cramer.


    Honestly, I bet you think your parents could figure it out, but you wanted to make a point and now you don't like how *you* made your parents look. Don't worry because I know it's not reflective of them, they had no opportunity.

    I'm not telling you to like something you don't and I'm not telling you to give your parents something they don't want. I haven't said any of those things. All I said was that my child exhibited that it was intuitive enough. I don't expect his skills are highly above average anymore than I think your parents' skills would be below.

    To summarize cramer doesn't like the remote, thinks it's not intuitive, threw his parents under the bus to try and demonstrate that. I also don't love the remote, but find the unit to be quite intuitive as demonstrated by my child and thus conclude that cramer underestimates his parents.
     
  10. Sir_winealot

    Sir_winealot Seenyer Member

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    Nov 18, 2000
    No way my parents could utilize the HR20. My mom ...after having a TiVo for 4 years ...just started using the on screen guide in lieu of the TV Guide (even though I showed it to her time and again).

    She still doesn't understand the concept of 'switching tuners, ' lol.
     
  11. Lord Vader

    Lord Vader Dark Lord ofthe Sith

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    Aug 29, 2004
    The...
    My mom can't even get the "12:00" on their VCR to stop flashing! :D
     
  12. lew

    lew Well-Known Member

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    Mar 12, 2002
    This is a tivo forum. For a variety of reasons some posters prefer tivo over other DVRS. Reliability, dual buffers, ease in upgrading internal hard drive, interface preference etc. This has nothing to do with parents or kids.

    I'd be surprised if DTV goes back to tivo but there isn't anything wrong with posters speculating.

    DTV used to be much better then cable. They offered dual tuner tivo DVRs and a lot of channels. Excluding the NFL FiOS and digital cable offer similar channels. Cable and FiOS now offer dual tuner DVRs that don't require paying a $299 lease fee. Cable and FiOS customers have the option of purchasing a tivo.

    Some of us get tired of playing CSR roulette with DTV trying to get the same deal others are getting. The only valid comparison is DTVs posted price, or whatever deal is available at BB or COSTCO.
     
  13. Lord Vader

    Lord Vader Dark Lord ofthe Sith

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    Aug 29, 2004
    The...
    I've got several DTIVOs--a couple HR10-250s, HDVR2s--and a couple DirecTV HD DVRs as well--the HR20-700s. I like them both, depending on which features I like to use at any given moment. I'm not going to throw either of the two products under the bus, even if I've used the DTIVOs for a lot longer than the DirecTV DVRs.
     
  14. Scott D

    Scott D Active Member

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    Jun 17, 2001
    Pasadena, Texas
    I hate the fact that the Season Pass feature (or whatever they call it) on the HR20 receivers is limited to 50. Currently, I have 52 on one receiver and building up on the other at 24.

    To me, that's just plain dumb.
     
  15. Lord Vader

    Lord Vader Dark Lord ofthe Sith

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    Aug 29, 2004
    The...
    Good God! 52 Season Passes on one, and 24 on the other? Man, you're watching waayyyyyyyyy too much TV. Your sex life must be in the toilet! :p
     
  16. RS4

    RS4 New Member

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    Sep 2, 2001
    Indianapolis...
    It says to me that they are using the dvr as a dvr - recording shows so they can watch them when they want to watch them. :p

    I've got 65 on one of my 3 DTivos. I like having a choice when I sit down to watch tv. It's just another sign that DirecTV didn't really think out this box when they were programming it.
     
  17. Lord Vader

    Lord Vader Dark Lord ofthe Sith

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    Aug 29, 2004
    The...
    On that statement I would tend to agree.
     
  18. Citivas

    Citivas Old Member

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    Oct 12, 2000
    Cranbury,...
    If you’re going to base credibility on tenure, I’ve been in the sandbox even longer. I have been with DirecTV since late ’95, had a TiVo since their first box (as well as a Replay and Ultimate TV and sampling the Media Server, etc.) and also got the first DirecTiVo the week it first released. And I’ve been on this forum about three years longer. I also have had both the 10-250 and the HR-20 in my household for almost a year now (10 months)… Personally I don’t think any of this matters, but it seemed to be your basis for establishing legitimacy…

    My experience has been the opposite of yours. First, I was unlucky enough to get the HR-20 months before their bizillionth software update finally made it stable, so for months it was successfully recording about 60% of my shows (it recorded most, but a ton of them had no show in the recording) and crashing daily, requiring a 15-20 minutes to restart. So I’ll admit the first impression sucked.

    That said, it has been stable for at least 7 months and I have used it extensively, mirroring (with a few conflict exceptions) the TiVo. They are not in the same room, but each room gets used extensively. The TiVo is assigned to the better TV though (they are both HDTV capable sets). So I have extensively used the HR-20, programmed it, used the guides, etc. And my family has to a reasonable extent.

    With the new HD channels allegedly coming “any day now” sometime this decade, I have proposed the idea of swapping locations between the boxes (I get all the locals in HD already on the TiVo so it hasn’t been a big deal before). But I faced out-and-out rebellion from my wife and son, who HATE the HR-20. Not just dislike, but hate (well, my wife hates it, my son dislikes it). She absolutely hates the UI, the sluggishness of the remote control’s responsiveness, the poor layout of the remote and the lack of some of the special effects missing from TiVo (particularly its feature of skipping back a few seconds after coming out of fast forward). She knows how to use it just fine, so it’s not about “liking what you know over what you don’t.”

    I agree with her on every point, plus I’ll add having just setup about 20 season passes for the fall and re-prioritizing and changing the recording options (save time and recording repeats or not) a bunch more, that it was dramatically quicker on the TiVo. Literally twice as fast on the TiVo. There is a lot of talk about how much faster the HR-20 menus respond and this is true – re-prioritizing is almost instant versus a long wait on the TiVo. But if done right, you only have to wait once. Also, I’ll agree the HR-20 is easier to record a live show. But beyond this, the TiVo is much more straight forward, less steps, etc. The HR-20 is ridiculous, in fact. First, because unlike with my TiVo, it labels the networks with the same channel # for the SD and HD versions. So I have to pay careful attention and waste time to make sure I record the right one. It also has redundant steps. When I first get the list of shows, like TiVo, it lists a separate line for each channel that has the show. But after carefully selecting the correct channel, it goes to another screen that shows just that show with all the channels again and you again have to carefully pick the right one. What a waste. Then be careful not to hit delete (double dash). I did this to try and kill out of date season passes. But there was such a delay between hitting the keys and it responding that I did it again and suddenly found 2 shows gone, because it doesn’t confirm it just does it. SO I had to figure out which show I wanted was suddenly missing and re-establish it. Then the same thing happened again because sometimes the remote ignores or double counts keys, so I hit the dash twice but it interpreted 4 times. Sometimes it take 3-4 tries to directly select a station in the guide for the same reason – if I want 265, I might get 26, 25, 2655, etc before it correctly interprets 265… Hoestly, the remote just sucks.

    I have no inherent product loyalty. I don’t defend TiVo just for the heck of it. There are a lot of limitations in the product and there are some cool things in the HR-20 product. But based simply on our user experience, I would easily give up the new HD channels for now to keep our Tivo (until it inevitably fries some day) versus being forced to only use HR-20’s. They just need to do better. Or, more likely, I will jump back to cable after all these years to stick with cable. As it is, I think the HD channel hype is overplayed. A majority of those other channels (I don’t care about the sports) will be broadcasting non-HD content a majority of the time anyway… Will it be nice to get Battlestar Galatica in early 2008 in HD. Sure. Is it worth being stuck with the HR-20? Not for us.
     
  19. Billy66

    Billy66 Again with shoelaces

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    Dec 15, 2003
    Not credibility Citivas, but purpose and if my experience has value on a "TiVo" forum. That's what was questioned.

    I respect your opinions about your experiences with all of your units, They are yours and valid.

    I will say I remember you. I remember you joining the forum. I was already here as user Xaa, but you're right, none of that matters much. I think you misinterpreted what I was trying to say or do you agree with the guy that claims I have no value here because I currently use an HR20 as my primary receiver? How do you respond when a newbie offers that assertion?

    Just to one up you :) DTV mid 95, 14 hour with 1.2.1 in Nov 99, ReplayTv, first week on DSR6000 and 12 months on the HR20. :p Wish I would have gotten an UTV. Lurked in the sandbox at the end of 99 and joined for the first time Jan 2000
     
  20. fasTLane

    fasTLane Member

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    Nov 25, 2005
    My tenure is longer than your tenure... :p :p :p
     

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