Diehard Tivo user - effect of HD price

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I thought I'd post this, not because I'm griping -- because Tivo has every right to charge what they think the market will bear..... but because I want to give my feedback on the S3 price.

First off -- we got our first Tivo in summer 2000, and jumped on the switch lifetime sub to Series2 when it came out, even though our Series 1 was still working fine. We paid for Home Media when it was a new, extra-price feature. We bought a 2nd Series 2 for the kids, and put lifetime on it, as well. Been a diehard Tivo family, and my husband even stuck the Tivo sticker on our front glass door, so anyone who comes to our house gets Tivo in their face.

So........ the whole Series 3 thing threw us into a quandry. First off, the price of $800 + 200 transfer fee -- that's steep enough, but then factor in we didn't even have an HD tv set yet.... but not that we wouldn't like HD, and hey, it was the one-shot to transfer lifetime... so we spent considerable time, research, discussions, thinking, and agonizing over our choices...

Here's how it worked out --

1) We camped out on Black Friday and got a 42" HD plasma TV (way cool, by the way).

2) We upgraded our cablebox (Timewarner) to their HD box with DVR. It's $13/month, but two cablecards for a S3 Tivo would have cost us $6/mth, so it's only $7/month more than our other option.

You know, Timewarner's DVR is not Tivo............... but it's not awful, either. Never would have tried it without Tivo pushing us into the HD market earlier than we were ready to go. So the funny thing is, because Tivo held our feet to the fire on making a decision, we got an HD TV and Time Warner's DVR -- but not a 3rd Tivo out of the deal.

Because -- one, we didn't already have HD - so the decision wasn't just the $1,000 for Tivo and transfer -- it's double that because of the cost of the television as well. And two, multi-room viewing doesn't work, and is an unknown how long it would be before (if) it does work. I think if MRV worked, we'd still get the HD Tivo -- but without that feature, there's nothing really that compelling to get us to spend another $1,000 at Christmas time when we've already spent that and more on the TV and cables.

Again -- I'm not angry, I'm not ranting and raving at Tivo or anything -- I'm just saying I think the market calculation was off.... at least for this Tivo family. I wonder how many others went through the same process and came up with the same kind of answer.

 

Well, I can see your question, and it's a valid one.... but that's assuming we'd turn around and be able to buy HD TV in January and the second slew of sales.... which, unfortunately, ignores the realities of Xmas spending (and two children with January birthdays to boot..)

So.... we'd be shelling out $1000 for HD Tivo S3, but not really able to get an HD set realistically to next May or June or so... at least budget wise... and if that's the case, we wouldn't even know if the Tivo had a physical problem for months (could happen, I'm sure..) And have spent a lot of HD money, and still not had HD... See how that logic works? Again, I think the miscalculation is how many Tivo owners didn't have HD yet..... that's what made the buy-in considerably more steep...

The other option is to double the cost and do both -- and I might have considered that, but the S3 isn't even a full feature set... we do a LOT of multi-room viewing.. and there's no real noise about when that will be enabled, or even if they'll be able to get it certified.

I just find it ironic that Tivo got us into the HD market really before we were considering it seriously, and didn't get any of the $$'s out of it....

 

Actually, we could afford it... if it was important enough to us.... and since we've been fairly early adopters of Tivo all along, I think we are generally part of their target market.

We've never been part of a Lexus market (or a Toyota market for that matter), so our reactions to their new offerings are irrelevant. We have been part of Pontiac's minivan market, so our reaction to their latest minivans does reflect on how well they are marketing to their base.

So I don't think my conclusion (which, if you note, says for this family ) was completely off-base... I have a feeling my family is not alone in not taking the S3 plunge as quickly as we did on the S1 and S2. Obviously, plenty of others have, as evidenced by the multitude of posts here. I just thought I'd post the viewpoint from previous Tivo early adopters that are more hesitant this time......... and even more to the point, opened the door to a competing DVR, whereas if you'd said a week ago I'd have anything but a Tivo in my house, I would have laughed at you.

I just think this is a result that Tivo should hear -- because I don't think it's what they were aiming for by dangling the lifetime transfer offer at me... I wish there was some way they could state definitively about MRV, but I know that's out of their hands and tied up with CableLabs. In any case, it just wasn't an attractive enough offer for this household to take the plunge, esp with the limited feature set.... isn't that worthwhile feedback? Again -- not to rant & rave or be mad..... just to explain our thought process and why the offer wasn't attractive enough to reel us in.

Funny, though -- The hd digital cable box with dvr has an external SATA port -- how come they don't have a CableLabs issue?

 

Sounds like our thinking is similar...... I also think the MRV option would put us over the top on going ahead and buying one....

Too bad the lifetime transfer offer will be gone, when that's resolved. I just don't feel happy plunking down that much, not having MRV, and possibly having a SVD problem now or in the future.

Haha, thanks for expressing my points better than I did.


However, I think you would be grandfathered on the 6.95 rate after the free year is up, if you transferred the lifetime sub over. At least, I think that's the gist of what I've read....

 

Yes, you are right.. I would assume that I am part of the target market. I have the disposable income, the desire to spend on entertainment products, the past history of being a diehard Tivo family -- how am I not part of the desired market? If they can't market to me, how much harder would it be to market to the non-Tivo user at all? I, at least, get the fact that generally Tivo is worth the premium, and haven't hesitated in the past to pay it.

I know the limit on features isn't Tivo's fault, but Cablelab's. I also wonder if the understanding of how many households weren't yet HDTV equipped came into play when setting the pricing -- because that does create a steeper entry point. Obviously, we were willing to drop a couple grand at our entertainment this Christmas season - but it became a question of HDTV & Tivo or HDTV alone. It wasn't an S3 or not S3 decision.

I meant to say "ANY Toyota, not A Toyota" -- does that help? But again, I don't think your Pontiac minivan and Cadillac Escalade comparison is completely legit.... I think if they came out with a Pontiac Montana (the two minivans I've purchased so far have been Montana's) that's priced at $50k and doesn't even have removable seats -- then I think they missed their target market. Maybe their market could stomach the price increase -- not all, but let's say most... but not if they lost the ability to configure the interior to be most convenient for their family per trip. Also, not if purchasing a new Montana means they have to change out their garage door, say, because a new feature of the Montana works better with some new kind of garage door. Well, the analogy really falls down there and has probably been pushed too far -- but you see what I am driving at (forgive the pun, of course). This upgrade costs more (okay, I'm an early adopter, I'm willing to pay for new), does less (no MRV), and requires additional, related purchases. All I wondered is if all of that was factored in while considering what price to enter the S3 into the market. Maybe it was -- maybe your premise is right -- they don't mind cutting out some of their prior market -- but I suspect that some level of losing the prior market was unintentional.

Sure, I've had friends and family who never got the idea of Tivo and sneer at the need for it in their lives (despite our fervent and almost fanatical exposition of the wonders of Tivo over the years..) Not everyone has the disposable income or desire to spend it that way. I think the pricing of the lifetime transfer is a way to discourage more transfers -- I'm sure they'd love to ditch the most lifetime subs ultimately that they can. Notice the offer went from free (S1 to S2) to $199. Notice lifetime subs can't even be bought anymore. So I agree that a certain amount of, "if these people don't transfer their lifetimes, we're quite okay with that" exists, but I don't think they also necessarily wanted the, "if these people try their cable alternatives and end up thinking those, in combination with their current lifetime units, are good enough," then that I don't think they would be as okay with.

Ahh, didn't know that. Yes, I was referring to the box TW provided. Why the double standard? Heck, why the standard at all. I find the whole issue annoying and intrusive. I don't want to rip dvds and hand them out on the street corner -- I want to switch between recording in the living room, and laying down in my bed at night and watching it back there. If I did want to rip and sell dvds, I'm sure I'd find a way, Cablelabs or not. It's been an ongoing issue since vcr and cassette tapes -- and fair use has gone by the wayside, it seems. Anyway, I can obviously hook up to the TW (or other cable company box) and pull stuff off, so I don't see how getting in Tivo's way accomplishes anything.