Dark S3E04 "The Origin" (spoilers)

Discussion in 'Now Playing - TV Show Talk' started by wprager, Jun 28, 2020.

  1. wprager

    wprager Well-Known Member

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    Go!
     
  2. wprager

    wprager Well-Known Member

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    So Tronte's father is the unnamed cleft lip man. So *he* is the infinity symbol on the floor family tree.

    Hannah finally has someone tell her he loves her (Egon); naturally she doesn't "ditto" back. So that's how she gets the pendant, and how she passes it on to Katharina's mother - so she's not the woman in the lake.

    It's hard to keep up even when watching on consecutive days. We've got two Marthas. The slightly older version, with the cut under her eye, rescued Jonas and took him to her world, then went to 1888 and "helped" Stranger Jonas along with his experiments, then went back to Adam in the 2050s; he is the one who sent her back to 1888. Meanwhile the slightly younger Martha was taken by Jonas to the future in her own world, to have a chat with her future self.

    Doesn't it look like Adam and Jonas (who are supposedly one and the same) are sending Martha on possibly conflicting missions?

    And there it is. Hannah is pregnant and the doctor lights a cigarette. Of course we she's know from Eve's floor that Hannah and Egon produce Silja, who is the mother of Agnes and Hannos/Noah. Still, it feels very much like these are all spoilers unless you prefer over the floor diagram.

    I thought for sure Doris was a giver when infinity man reached into his pocket.

    "Is it mine?" he's just such an Egon, really. He says to Hannah that he thought she was taking precautions; the pill wasn't yet in use so you'd think *he* would be the one using "precautions". What an Egon.

    So 2052 alt Martha (who is further along her timeline than the Martha who is working with Adam) says they cannot save both worlds. Jonas cannot save *his* Martha, but by allowing the apocalypse to happen in his world he would stop himself from becoming Adam and so on. She says that in *this* world he and Martha can work. Not sure I get it - how did he prevent Adam without sacrificing himself? She just have heavy something else but I'm not sure what - it was precisely the apocalypse which created the God Particle that powers Adam's device. So shouldn't you be trying to prevent that?

    2052 Martha connects the boxes showing Jonas+Martha=Infinity Symbol. Interestingly that's *not* on Eve's floor (Eve is the older Martha). Is that just because the floor was introduced in E02 and they didn't want to s spoil too much? Or does our boy Jonas do something to screw it up? Stay tuned.

    So the infinity symbol is also referred to as The Origin, right? And that's supposed to be the cleft lip man. He threatens the city planner into signing off on the nuclear power plant permit. For someone called The Origin he's certainly doing a lot of the legwork - compare this to Adam who just talks cryptically and gathers many minions to do his work. Other than shooting Martha, how much hasv he done himself?

    So Martha was working for him because he promised her something. Did he promise her how to destroy The Origin? I could think of a number of ways: don't save Jonas, don't get together with Jonas, go on the pill, etc.

    So 2020 Martha is asking Adam hurt to destroy The Origin, 2019 Martha is making The Origin's origin story, and 2052 Martha is connecting the dots, or rectangles. I'm confused. If there is a plan it appears to be constantly changing.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2020
  3. Family

    Family Well-Known Member

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    I like the subtle stuff, like the scene with Hannah and Katarina's mother. LOL. Hannah named her.

    I'd enjoy seeing the series shown in time line order beginning in 1888.
     
  4. wprager

    wprager Well-Known Member

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    Yep. Katharina is named after the woman who has slept with her husband and her son. Master level trolling, there.
     
  5. wprager

    wprager Well-Known Member

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    If the series was shown in time order it would be an infinite loop.
     
  6. wprager

    wprager Well-Known Member

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    The E04 recap was pretty disappointing. I've read recaps for S2 and S2 that were very good, when are *those* places going to put out some recaps?
     
  7. wprager

    wprager Well-Known Member

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    Looks like Decider.com has at least the first 2 episodes recapped. Better than the recaps I've been reading.
     
  8. john4200

    john4200 Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if the problem is that it is not really possible to make sense of the story anymore. None of the characters who are manipulating things seem to be acting rationally. I suppose it is possible that there is some big secret that they all know that I do not which makes their actions reasonable, but I am beginning to have my doubts. It would have to be a real doosey of a secret.

    The way it looks to me at the moment is that there is a lot of unknown information about the physics of what is going on, not only unknown to us but also unknown to the main players. And yet the main manipulators all act as if they know exactly what is happening -- no doubts at all -- and they also know exactly what must be done to achieve their goals. But these people who are sure they know what is happening and what to do are constantly in conflict with each other. None of them seem to stop and say, "wait a minute, maybe we need more information before deciding what to do, and it would be a good idea to sit down and have a brainstorming session with the others".

    It is beginning to look like the writers cannot handle the complexity of the story, so characters are just doing things because the plot demands it, not because it makes sense from their point of view. Maybe that is always going to happen in a time travel story like this, where you either have to sacrifice free will or throw in a ridiculously large number of strange coincidences (or go with the infinite worlds interpretation where a world exists for every variation of every action anyone takes).
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2020
  9. wprager

    wprager Well-Known Member

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    Given the previous two seasons I think the writers know exactly where they are going. I thought after Adam killed Martha that Eve would kill Jonas. But she would have had to do that before Martha and he did the nasty. And she was the one who manipulated then into it (although teenagers really don't need much "manipulation"). So now her play - if that was how she aimed at stopping the apocalypse - is to either kill Martha (she probably can't because that would create a paradox) or Mr. Infinity (except she'd apparently using him/them.

    So if preventing Me. Infinity is not her play, just what is her plan? Maybe killing Jonas is still the plan (who knows, maybe killing Jonas in the alt world is somehow permissible paradox-wise and simply wipes out the entire original world or some similar BS)G. I hope not.
     
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  10. wprager

    wprager Well-Known Member

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    I'm abandoning the earlier idea of other universes and a second Jonas. Everything points to this other world being a mirror universe (beds on the other side, cleft lip switching sides, orientation of the school building and other left-right swaps, the R in DARK bring flipped, etc.) They are heavily pushing the concept of a mirror world, so just two.

    So how can Stranger Jonas not remember alt Martha taking him to her world? What if a paradox *is* allowed? If younger Jonas is killed maybe the older Jonas simply loses that part of his timeline and memories. I dunno, sounds a little bit like a cop-out.

    Jonas getting killed by Eve feels very reciprocal and fitting. But wouldn't she have already done so?
     
  11. john4200

    john4200 Well-Known Member

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    And that is exactly the problem. They know where they are going, and by damn, they are going to get there no matter what the characters have to do to move the plot along.
     
  12. Family

    Family Well-Known Member

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    I have faith in the show that this will all make sense.
     
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  13. wprager

    wprager Well-Known Member

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    By the way, a spoiler found its way into these threads. I was listening to a podcast for E02 and those guys had no idea who the Scarface girl was, yet her name was freely used a few times (I think it started in the S1+2 rewatch thread). The family tree on the floor if Eve's HQ is a huge spoiler if you know the name. I went back and checked the S1 finale and first few episodes until Jonas goes back through the God Particle portal. The girl's name is never mentioned, and she is listed as "Girl from the future" in the credits. I suspect someone gleaned it from IMDB or something like that.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2020
  14. john4200

    john4200 Well-Known Member

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    I remember the name way back from season 2, but I'm not sure where I learned it. It could be it was mentioned in one of the season 2 episodes, but it also may have been from something I read last year. It is a minor character anyway, at least up to this point.
     
  15. hefe

    hefe Rebus Philbin

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    I'm at the point where I'm just going along to see how it ends. I can't keep up with the characters. I don't remember who is who and why they are where they are. I'm pretty lost.
     
  16. wprager

    wprager Well-Known Member

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    I find it really helps to read (or watch) episode recaps. I finally got to the point where I could quickly name pretty much all the characters in different times. And for most of them I can actually say to whom they are related.

    I couldn't do that when we were watching S1, but that's how I went through the re-watch of S1 and then S2.
     

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