D* Offered upgrade from HR10 to HR20 and...

Discussion in 'DirecTV TiVo Powered PVRs & Receivers' started by BOBCAT, Jun 11, 2007.

  1. RS4

    RS4 New Member

    999
    0
    Sep 2, 2001
    Indianapolis...

    Advertisements

    "Or do you think TiVo made a business decision to release the Series 3 to either cut costs, reduce development costs and time frames, or bring the Series 3 to market at a specific time they wanted to? Don't you think DIRECTV would make business decisions along those same lines? Of course they would."

    Absolutely I agree that both products were developed for business reasons. I believe the Series 3 was released without certain features in order to be certified by CableLabs. CabelLabs would not let them include a feature set that I am sure is popular on other Tivos, but which the cable industry sees as too much competition for them so they refused to let them be included, just as D* did with the DTivos.

    DirecTV was forced to come out with the HR20 - they through out Tivo, had a terrible experience with the NDS box, and decided to build their own. We don't know if they were planning on an NDS HD box. My guess is they were. So, that meant from the beginning that they probably were under a time crunch. For that reason alone, quality is going to suffer and it's evident in the final results.

    Of course the hardware issues have probably settled down a lot, and many of the software issues have been fixed, but that still doesn't overcome design decisions such as recording from a search that will take a long time to fix. And of course, just like the DTivos, there is a feature list lacking in the new box that DirecTV needs to address.

    I believe the evidence shows that the DirecTV plus dvr's are just another run-of-the-mill generic box. We've seen this kind of thing from DirecTV for years - like their promise of a whole feature set of items for the NDS box that never materialized.

    I believe if DirecTV and Tivo had had an open relationship, we would have prospered more. It looks like to me that both companies made huge mistakes. We'll never know because we weren't there, but the fact remains that this is a Tivo forum and the majority of us want a Tivo replacement. The rest, we'll gladly send to the other forum.

    If you look at other questions here, you'll find when there is a question about something dealing with mpeg 4 or D*'s dvrs, we gladly point out the other forum. What I and others don't like is the misleading statements that are made and the crusade by the zealots.
     
  2. drew2k

    drew2k Drew != Drawn

    4,862
    0
    Jun 9, 2003
    Long Island, NY
    But to say the HR20 is a piece of crap, which is the most common refrain here at TCF when there's a question about the HR20, is entirely subjective and thus is misleading. The user you're trying to help can best form their own opinion by going to a forum that deals with the HR20 and reading a full spectrum of comments, from users with many problems, to users with some problems, to users with NO problems. Every DVR has people with problems, and TiVo and DIRECTV are no exceptions. It's extremely disingenuous to pretend otherwise.
     
  3. RS4

    RS4 New Member

    999
    0
    Sep 2, 2001
    Indianapolis...
    "But to say the HR20 is a piece of crap..."

    What most of you fail to understand is the User Interface is a big deal to a lot of people, if it's not intuitive (which is a huge complaint), then in fact it will earn that reputation. I've seen enough complaints from Tivo users to believe DirecTV failed miserably in that category.

    You guys make light of it and say anyone can learn to use it. Of course that is correct, but if many many Tivo users are saying it isn't easy to use, then they will form that opinion.

    That appears to me to be the major complaint on the other forums, so I understand why people feel that way.

    "It's extremely disingenuous to pretend otherwise." It's appropriate to encourage folks to go over to the other forums. It's disingenuous to come on to this forum and indicate this box is the next upgrade step for a Tivo user and there won't be any problems.

    Short of DirecTV allowing a trial program, then only way anyone can make a decision is to read forums and do research on other places.

    There are way too many other people who absolutely hate the box for me to be convinced that it is anything close to a Tivo. You can see that on the other forum. The general impression I get from Tivo users on the other forum is 'yeah, it has some good features and I can put up with this box, but it isn't a Tivo" That is not a glowing endorsement from people who have tried both.

    It's one thing to not have problems with the box, but completely different to "would I like to have stayed with the Tivo?" And that's what I think you guys are ignoring.
     
  4. tfederov

    tfederov M GO BLUE!!!

    2,959
    0
    Jul 6, 2003
    Plano, TX
    RS4, how much time have you spent trying out an HR20?
     
  5. drew2k

    drew2k Drew != Drawn

    4,862
    0
    Jun 9, 2003
    Long Island, NY

    Advertisements

    It's obvious you have no interest in doing anything but bash the HR20, even when its pointed out to you that the people here who have FIRSTHAND knowledge of the HR20 are only correcting misinformation. You have no desire to do anything but spout about perceived HR20 shortcomings, and you ignored my comment about letting people form their own opinions by going to a forum of people who use the HR20 daily.

    :rolleyes:
    Really? Commenting that a user's prior experience directly colors their reception to an alternate UI is making light of it?

    If you're currently a DIRECTV customer with TiVo looking to stay with DIRECTV, and want to receiver HD channels from DIRECTV this fall, then yes, the HR20 DIRECTV DVR+ is the only way to go. That is not evangelism or preaching. It's fact.

    So why do you feel the need to trash the HR20 here instead of letting the user who asks about the HR20 go to the other site and find out firsthand? Simple - you don't like DIRECTV for discontinuing it's relationship with TiVo and you just want to spread FUD about the HR20.

    First, I read DBSTalk.com every day and there is no way you can read that forum and come away with the perception that there are many people who hate it. Second, the HR20 is its own DVR and of course will have a different UI, so yes ... it's NOT a TiVo.

    No one's ignoring that. You're still ignoring the fact that people who ask about the HR20 here are entitled to an answer, and the people who answer are not going to go into in depth discussions about the HR20 each time, including the history of why the TiVo/DIRECTV relationship ended.
     
  6. Sir_winealot

    Sir_winealot Seenyer Member

    2,082
    0
    Nov 18, 2000

    But continue to debate with him at a feverish pace.... :p

    I'll say this, it makes for interesting reading.
     
  7. RS4

    RS4 New Member

    999
    0
    Sep 2, 2001
    Indianapolis...


    That's a great question, tfederov. About a month ago I called DirecTV to cancel my NFLST. The lady that finally came on pushed me off to another lady, my guess was that she was in customer retention. She offered the HR20 to me for $19.95. I asked how long I could review it and send it back if I didn't like it. She told me 2 years - yeah, that's some trial program all right. If I didn't like it, I was stuck with a 2 year-commitment.

    I just got out of the HR10-250 commitment and have serious doubts about the HR20, so the answer to your question is 0 time, nada, nothing. I've formed my opinions on what I've read because DirecTV will not let me try it at home and send it back if I don't like it, but not be held to the 2-year commitment. Does that sound like a company who is proud of their product and who cares about the customer? No, of course not. That's not a company that I want to sign on to for another hitch.
     
  8. RS4

    RS4 New Member

    999
    0
    Sep 2, 2001
    Indianapolis...
    Drew2k "It's obvious you have no interest in doing anything but bash the HR20, even when its pointed out to you that the people here who have FIRSTHAND knowledge of the HR20 are only correcting misinformation. You have no desire to do anything but spout about perceived HR20 shortcomings, and you ignored my comment about letting people form their own opinions by going to a forum of people who use the HR20 daily."

    Drew, I have pointed out time and again that folks should go over to dbstalk.com. I think their eyes will be opened and I encourage them to do that. I see a huge discontent their - people having problems with the box, people wanting stuff fixed, people not liking the UI and remote.

    One reason I hope they go over there is because they'll see how hostile many of the folks are over there. A couple of examples: one guy complained about the remote - he was bombasted by users practically pointing out that he was a fool for even bringing up such an idea. In fact one responder called him names. A second poster pointed out that his box still didn't work very well and he depended on his HR10-250 for his important recordings and he was soundly chastised by other folks, practically calling him a liar because that wasn't happening to the responder. That's not the kind of forum that makes you feel welcome and feel like you can ask a question or offer an opinion that may go against the HR20.

    As I've pointed out before, I am a long-time DirecTV customer. I doubt there are many customers left who have an active account below 13033. (I got my first satellite dish in 1984 and have loved the technology ever since.) I used to bring customers to DirecTV because I believed in them, especially after the Tivo came along.

    But then, DirecTV has changed their operations in the last few years and I think the customers have suffered for that. The focus seems to have switched away from the customer and more towards the owners. Now, it looks like in the press that once they are under new management, one of the things being considered is to make them their own tracking stock, so again it looks like we the customers will suffer.

    DirecTV's customer ratings have declined faster than any of their competitors, so I am not alone in my thinking. I think the HR20 is a perfect reflection of the attitude DirecTV now has towards the customer - a poorly executed product that is being forced on customers. That is one reason the survey numbers dropped so much.

    My own preference would be for the Tivo customers to not rush to get the new box unless they absolutely need it. That is the only way that DirecTV will learn that customers are tired of their tactics.

    DirecTV used to be full of innovation and the relationship with Tivo and UltimateTV were signs of that. But under the current ownership, they seemed to have abandoned that attitude. So they got rid of Tivo instead of offering their customers the features that were available on the Tivo stand-alone products. That meant they had to start over and they had a castrophy on their hands with the NDS product. The HR20 (and soon to be H21) are the results of those problems. They set themselves backwards in time to what - maybe 2001 when the DTivo came out.

    It's a shame, because we could have had so much more. I've seen figures that as many as 1 in 5 people don't like the box. If that's the case, then DirecTV has a long way to go to win over the existing Tivo customer base.

    It's clear that DirecTV has come out with a product that is not leading the technology trend. Oh sure it has mpeg4 and addon capability, but that's about it. I don't understand the emphasis of VOD. After all, isn't that what a dvr is in the first place? So, in my mind they are taking away 60 or 80 gig that I would prefer to have for my own needs.

    The final proof in the pudding that this is just an ok box is in the endorsements that it isn't getting - especially from Tivo users. It seems like the majority of them accept it as a way of getting mpeg4, but they aren't shouting from the ceilings that this is a terrific new product.
    Instead we see things like " The HR20 UI isn't as pretty or user friendly, but the unit basically does the same thing." from timb2112.
     
  9. BOBCAT

    BOBCAT Member

    396
    0
    Nov 28, 2002
    SF bay area
    RS4,
    Yes the HR20 is different from TiVo. It take's some time to learn all of the functions and how to navigate through the menus. Yes the menus are not "intuitive" as TiVo. When I got my 1st TiVo, I had to learn how to use it. I am going through that learning curve with my HR20 now. I miss not having duel buffers and the vertical program guide, although there is a way to get a vertical guide on the channel that your are searching, (thanks drew2k), But there are features that I like on the HR20 the TiVo didn't have.
    I installed an HR20 for my 87 year old dad. He is really working hard on learning how to use it. He hates change. The TiVo GUI was really designed for him in mind, ease of use, easy to learn and remember, so the HR20 is a real challenge for him, but he is learning it.
    The bottom line is that it records the programs that I want to record, haven't missed one yet. Picture quality is good. I'm set for the upcoming MPEG4 channels when they come on line, and for now, it has enough storage space for the programs I save. As for the 2 year commitment, I don't have cable, so D* is my TV program provider and I don't see me leaving them any time to soon.
    Would I like to see a MPEG4 D* TiVo, you bet!, Maybe way down the line D* will see the error of there way, but not going to wait for it.
    I don't think that getting out of a commitment is anything to brag about. Maybe I'm old fashion, but when I make a commitment to someone I stick to it.
     
  10. bonscott87

    bonscott87 Done.

    3,105
    126
    Oct 3, 2000
    Dish's commitment is 18 months. Do they not care about their customers and aren't proud of their product?
    Cell phone commitment is typically 2 years. They don't care either I guess.
    Tivo's commitment is from 1-3 years. I'm guessing they aren't proud of their products either.

    Your argument holds no water.

    Listen, the 2 year commitment is really easy to get out of. I've told you time and again your cable company will buy you out pretty readily, unless your cable company really sucks and if it does you wouldn't consider them anyway. Then your only choice is Dish and I'm guessing you're not with them already because you think they suck too. So if you're with DirecTV for the long haul anyway why be afraid of a commitment? Not sure why you still get hung up on a commitment that is easy and painless to get out of with no extra out of pocket to you.

    Good luck!
     
  11. bonscott87

    bonscott87 Done.

    3,105
    126
    Oct 3, 2000
    Yea, I was pretty bored this morning before we headed out to the state rec area and enjoyed the great outdoors instead of worrying about TV. :) I think my plan is to try to just ignore RS4 from now on, unless I get bored again. ;)

    It is amazing how worked up some people do get about their TV. I just sit down and watch my programs. Even if I had to have Charter cable, which sucks around here, I'd make the best of it because I'd still be able to watch CSI or whatnot each week. And in the end that is all that counts.
     
  12. Da Goon

    Da Goon Registered Abuser

    1,396
    0
    Oct 22, 2006
    I've barely read any of this thread, but I had to say this. IT'S JUST TV. Stop peeing your pants over which dvr (you think) is better. :rolleyes:

    There are so many productive things that could have been done instead of typing long drawn out posts about how bad the HR20 is. If anyone disagrees that that time could have been better spent, they need to get their priorities straight. How many people died from starvation while you were busy cleaning your pants from soiling yourself when you found Directv's new dvr doesn't have dual live buffers, etc. :eek:
     
  13. dfioc

    dfioc New Member

    126
    0
    Sep 24, 2004
    Orange...
    LOL!!
     
  14. stevel

    stevel Dumb Blond TCF Club

    43,011
    15,793
    Aug 23, 2000
    Nashua, NH
    My HR20 was installed today. I'm keeping my HR10. Yes, they're different, but not in any way that is a "deal breaker" for me. The HR20 has some nice features TiVo lacks, and vice-versa.
     
  15. dfioc

    dfioc New Member

    126
    0
    Sep 24, 2004
    Orange...

    I'm in the same boat; my HR20 gets installed this week but I'll be keeping my HR10. I originally was going to sell it but there's a ton already for sale on Ebay and for what they're selling for, I'll just go ahead and move it to another room. I needed a reason to buy another HDTV!!
     
  16. drew2k

    drew2k Drew != Drawn

    4,862
    0
    Jun 9, 2003
    Long Island, NY
    stevel ... if you haven't checked them out yet, see the "TiVo to HR20 Survival Guide" and the "Undocumented Tips and Tricks" PDF docs in the HR20 Resources forum at DBSTalk.com ... they'll make it a little easier to learn and adapt to the UI, which is quite different from TiVo.
     
  17. BOBCAT

    BOBCAT Member

    396
    0
    Nov 28, 2002
    SF bay area
    Da Goon,
    Your taking the time to read all of this, so I guess its more than "just TV" to you also. :)
    To a lot of people, it is a very personal thing. People may have a wife, kids, dog, cat and a DVR of one type or another. Its all part of the family so people get emotional about it when there is a forced change in how the GUI looks and how it is controlled.
    This fourm is a place where people can vent there frustrations instead of taking it out on the family. :eek:
     
  18. bbodin

    bbodin New Member

    136
    0
    Jan 21, 2004
    Houston
    Cell phones have 2 year commitment, but you have 14 days to try it out and if you aren't satisfied they let you out of that commitment (at least with Verizon and Sprint)

    I have no idea if that's the case with D*, but just wanted to point out it works this way for cellphones (and that is the way it SHOULD work on ANY long term commitments....you have a brief trial period that you can cancel out of if your not satisfied with the actual service).
     
  19. RS4

    RS4 New Member

    999
    0
    Sep 2, 2001
    Indianapolis...
    DirecTV told me that I was locked in for 2 more years regardless if I liked the thing or not. I've been with them since 1994. They would take it back alright, it's just that I would still be locked in. :confused:
     
  20. gio1269

    gio1269 "HR20 Army"

    348
    0
    Jul 27, 2006
    I prefer scanning as well, but the HR20 does not get ONE,ONE channel OTA that the HR10 can scan. It's one crappy weather station down here. That's it!

    The signal strength is slightly better with VHF channels on the HR20 over the HR10. UHF the same.
     

Share This Page

spam firewall

Advertisements