CURRENT TIVO VS NEW OR NEWER TIVO

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by PiperCanada, Mar 12, 2018.

  1. PiperCanada

    PiperCanada New Member

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    Mar 12, 2018
    PETERBOROUGH...
    Hi there all!

    I have a TIVO Premiere Model TCD746500 with a lifetime sub. My question for those on here is that I only use it with OTA signals which because of location are weak. I'm reaching out for feedback as when the antenna is plugged into the TIVO, I only get 2 channels. Yet, when the same cable is moved from the TIVO to a Samsung TV, I get a whole array of channels. I was told by a store that mainly supplies OTA equipment that the TIVO channel sensitivity is very poor and that's why my situation.
    I'm trying to find out if that is the case and also if changing to a newer TIVO unit has better electronics in it that would allow me to record these other channels that my TV receives. I'm thinking that the newer units with 4 tuners would even further split the signal to service the 4 tuners, thereby getting a less than desirable outcome after having paid out for a new unit.

    Any comments would be well appreciated!

    Thanks!
     
  2. JoeKustra

    JoeKustra in the other Alabama TCF Club

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    Buy a Roamio OTA. If it's not good enough send it back within 30 days. There is internal magic to compensate for the extra tuners.
     
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  3. Mikeguy

    Mikeguy Well-Known Member

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    For whatever it's worth, I don't notice any channel reception strength difference between a Series 2 TiVo and a Roamio OTA, both with an inside tabletop antenna. (I don't have a Premiere.)

    You didn't say what type of antenna you're using. If something like mine (as vs., for example, an attic or outdoor antenna), I'd first be tempted to try an improved antenna.
     
  4. PiperCanada

    PiperCanada New Member

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    Mar 12, 2018
    PETERBOROUGH...
    I've got a Channel Master Masterpiece 100 which is good for 100 miles, with a 7777 Amp and I receive lots of channels like I said when the cable is plugged into the Samsung TV, but when switched to the TIVO unit directly, I only get 2 channels, which are the strongest. The others don't even show a signal when using the self-diagnostic channel strength indicator, but are sufficiently strong enough to both keep a constant channel on the TV as well as showing a reasonable signal strength??
     
  5. Mikeguy

    Mikeguy Well-Known Member

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    Has that always been the issue with the TiVo Premiere box? I wonder if there is/has been an issue with the box--as I said, I haven't seen it with my Series 2.
     
  6. tenthplanet

    tenthplanet Well-Known Member

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    Tivo tuners were good with Tivo HD/Series 3, took a step backwards with the Premiere, and were improved with Roamaio and the Bolts. I've had experience with a TIVO HD, a Premeire, and a Bolt. Premeieres were not very good with dealing multipath and not greatest for UHF stations, they were Ok for high VHF stations. I used to use a Tivo HD along with a Premeiere, the HD worked better with UHF. Bolt is good all around.
     
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  7. tommage1

    tommage1 Well-Known Member

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    Out of all my OTA boxes, S3, Roamio, Bolt, Premiere, the Premiere is the worst, does not even have a signal on some channels that are clear on my other Tivos. Since almost all stations around here are UHF (except for CBS which is high VHF) what you say explains the Premiere. Just for fun I'm going to check CBS on the Premiere, it is the weakest out of all my main OTA channels, maybe it's better on the Premiere than my other boxes.
     
  8. tarheelblue32

    tarheelblue32 Well-Known Member

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    The OTA tuners on the Roamio are much better than on the Premiere. Having Skipmode and Quickmode alone are worth the upgrade to a Roamio OTA.
     
  9. V7Goose

    V7Goose OTA ONLY and Loving It!

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    New Mexico...
    I have never had a Premier, so no experience with those tuners, but even if they are not quite up to the quality of S3 or S5 & S6 boxes, what you describe sounds to me like you have a different problem.

    Perhaps your box is physically bad with broken cable connection, or maybe you are using a bad coax? But frankly, it sounds more like you just have a problem with your lineup on the TiVo. This has been a very common issue since Bad_Rovi took over at the end of 2016, ESPECIALLY in rural areas (Bad_Rovi is stupidly lazy and totally changed the way they handled location-specific channel lineups). The TiVo cannot just simply pick up any open broadcast signal it sees like your TV does; it has to have the full channel detail coded into the lineup by the Mother Ship and downloaded to your box. Sorting out TiVo lineup issues can be a complicated subject, and it often requires LONG posts on the forum! Here are a few pointers:

    • There are probably several HUNDRED bogus channels in your lineup. Most of them will have no signal at all because they are from locations hundreds of miles away from you.
    • But many of the bogus channels will be coded as using the same broadcast frequency as some of your real channels, and if you test those in your Antenna Signal Strength screen, you will see a good signal level, but still get no audio or video.
    • You need to carefully compare the actual display channel number, channel call letters AND broadcast channel number from your TV to each channel you find in your TiVo Signal Strength screen to know exactly which channels should be checked in the lineup, and then make sure ONLY those channels are checked.
    • Finally, if your TiVo channel lineup shows any channels with an *, it is an indication that it may bee seeing an actual broadcast signal from a real channel that is NOT in the TiVo lineup. If you see this, you need to give us more information to try to help you sort it out.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2018
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  10. PiperCanada

    PiperCanada New Member

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    Mar 12, 2018
    PETERBOROUGH...
    I spoke with TIVO tech support and we went through the diagnostics page on the unit to see about signal strength, SNR, RS corrected and uncorrected and it was explained to me by them that my signal is too low for these channels. Although the TV is capable of picking them up, when splitting the signal into 2 (for the Premiere), that purchasing a Roamio would not serve me well as the signal would be then split into 4 which would be a lesser result again? I guess I'm on hold for now until I find a better solution??
     
  11. V7Goose

    V7Goose OTA ONLY and Loving It!

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    What you were told by the morons is garbage.

    Read my reply above and actually do that stuff.
     
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  12. V7Goose

    V7Goose OTA ONLY and Loving It!

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    New Mexico...
    If my previous reply was too complicated for you, here is a clear 4-step process:
    1. Select a channel that works on your TV but not on your TiVo - then tune in that station on the TV.
    2. Write down the display channel number, the channel letters, and the broadcast channel and/or broadcast frequency (both is best, if available). If your TV has a diagnostics screen that shows signal strength, then write that down too.
    3. Now tune your TiVo to that same channel and open the Diagnostics screen and write down the channel number, Frequency, Signal Strength and SNR.
    4. Give us all of the above information AND your zip code (both your actual zip code and the one you used for Guided Setup if they are not the same)
    Bonus points if you ALSO give us all of the information above for a channel that does work on both devices.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2018
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  13. TeamPace

    TeamPace Active Member

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    I have used and compared TiVo series 3 HD, Premier 2 tuner, Roamio base and OTA model, and Bolt 4 tuner for OTA reception. My experience is the Series 3 HD and the Roamio models have given the best OTA results and were consistently able to tune and lock the most channels. Tried the two tuner Premier for several weeks with lots of effort to improve reception and decided to return it. Currently I use a 4 tuner Roamio but have a Bolt sitting unused in my closet as it does not tune as well as the Roamio. A few other posters here seem to do OK with the Bolt on OTA, but perhaps their signals just happen to be in the sweet spot that the Bolt needs. My hobby is helping people cut the cord and I always suggest the Roamio OTA for them with consistently good results. The right Antenna and positioning are important as well. Bottom line is I'd suggest getting a Roamio OTA.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2018
    Mikeguy likes this.
  14. series5orpremier

    series5orpremier Well-Known Member

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    Also get the best most powerful antenna for the channels (UHF or VHF) you want to pick up. That could make a big difference.
     
  15. adessmith

    adessmith Active Member

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    One antenna can't be "more powerful" than another. They receive and don't transmit anything. One antenna might be better at seeing the signal that is there by utilizing a better pattern for your particular situation, but can't be "more powerful". On the other hand, you can use a "more powerful" amp, but it can't help the antenna "pick up" any more than what is there. All it does is amplify the existing signal (noise and all) to overcome losses between the antenna and the tuner (for instance long runs of coax or splitters).

    I wonder if @PiperCanada would see better results by adding an amp to overcome whatever losses are introduced by the premiere?
     
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  16. series5orpremier

    series5orpremier Well-Known Member

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    You knew exactly what I meant (the most power gain) and so did I. No need for the condescension. Indeed one antenna can be more powerful than another; that’s the whole idea behind the gain ratio.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2018
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  17. dirtsy

    dirtsy Member

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    Under the...
    From my experience, amps only only lead to more trouble.

    Do we know if @PiperCanada has a clean coax line from the antenna to the TV/Premiere? No [bad] splitters inline? How far from the towers?

    Since so much of OTA is location, location, location, I have to agree with @JoeKustra and suggest purchasing a Roamio OTA and test it.
     
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  18. PiperCanada

    PiperCanada New Member

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    Mar 12, 2018
    PETERBOROUGH...
    I'll run the test you suggested later today or tomorrow. Just for info, I have a Channel Masterpiece 100 which is a high gain 100 Mile antenna. Then I have a CM7777 amplifier on that antenna. If I run this signal into either the TV or the TIVO directly, that's where I see the difference in results. Then I have plugged in a CM3414 4 Port powered distribution amplifer. Mixed results on that one. It seemed initially to have locked in marginal channels, but lately in search of this solution, I have unplugged it and run the cable straight to either the TV or the TIVO Premier. This allows the TIVO to pick up the 2 strongest channels although the TV gets a whole lot more. I have also replaced the cable from the antenna from an RG6 to an RG11 in an effort to further enhance the signal although the run is ultimately going to be less than 100 feet.
    I guess in the meantime, I'll search ebay for a Roamio and see what I come up with. I wonder if there's a clean way to ensure getting the lifetime and the unit changed over to my name this time if it is purchased on Ebay from someone "used". The reason I say this is because when I phone TIVO on the Premier that I've had for 6 years, they have my phone number and email, but say it's registered to another name with 6 receivers? Presumably the person I bought the unit from originally??
     
  19. kendq

    kendq Member

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    Stupid Question ; when is the last time a OTA channel scan was done?
     
  20. V7Goose

    V7Goose OTA ONLY and Loving It!

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    New Mexico...
    Channel scans on a TiVo do not really do much, certainly not the same as a TV channel scan. If the TiVo detects a new signal that does not match something in the lineup, it will add it with an "*" to the channel list even without running a channel scan. In those cases, you can SOMETIMES watch the channel, but you will not have Guide info.

    But more often that adding a valid scanned channel, it will add bogus scanned channels (marked by the *) based on the broadcast frequency that it sees, but not matching the correct display frequency. For example, in my area, channels 2-1, 15-1, 29-1 and 33-1 are all broadcast on 'frequency' 38, and until just recently the TiVo lineup on my boxes all had *38-1, *38-2, *38-3, and *38-4 channels, NONE of which were valid! Several weeks ago stupid Bad_Rovi added actual 38-1 thru 38-4 channels to the lineup, so the * went away, but ALL OF THOSE CHANNELS ARE STILL BOGUS CHANNELS IN MY AREA!
     

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