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Counterpart (Starz) Season One Thread *spoilers*

Discussion in 'Now Playing - TV Show Talk' started by astrohip, Jan 25, 2018.

  1. Mar 5, 2018 #241 of 470
    ej42137

    ej42137 Well-Known Member

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    For either side to have been responsible for the virus would need some reason for the two worlds to have significant differences in the macro world for one side to have let the virus out and not the other. But the virus is itself is the cause of the sides being different in the macro world, not an effect. (If it were a result, we would have the loose end of the missing cause for the sides being different.) The mutation of a virus is (often) the result of the ionizing radiation that is the result of a quantum mechanical process, which reasonably would have differing outcomes on the two sides.

    For this reason I think the virus just happened, as viruses do, and Alpha was lucky while Prime was not.
     
  2. Mar 5, 2018 #242 of 470
    Rob Helmerichs

    Rob Helmerichs I am Groot! TCF Club

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    Although at the core (i.e., the Berlin stations where the transfers happen), the differences would grow much more quickly since people would be exposed to the different worlds and their Others/Shadows. All it would take it one person on one side to freak out to get the ball rolling, and although the ball wouldn't roll far (since they were keeping the two worlds a secret), it could roll pretty hard within that little ecosystem...
     
  3. Mar 5, 2018 #243 of 470
    series5orpremier

    series5orpremier Well-Known Member

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    They never said the worlds were identical before the flu, just more or less similar on a macro scale. The flu just accelerated the divergence. So people who were alive before the “split” (discovery of the crossing in 1987) remember life events before the “split” identically but events between the “split” and the flu can still vary on a micro scale. Given Nadia’s confused reaction to Baldwin I wouldn’t be surprised if Baldwin’s alpha father is still alive on the alpha side.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2018
  4. Mar 5, 2018 #244 of 470
    Tony_T

    Tony_T Well-Known Member

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    Howard's gonna be pissed that Quayle let Claire know that he knows she's Shadow (but she knew he was up to something when she realized he lied about the cigars to get her out of the apartment).

    At the final scene in the ep it looked like Quayle was believing her lie that things changed when she had the baby (that she named after her childhood crush, Spenser)

    Looks like her broken legs will be used by her to prove to her Dad that she's not an other (Dad and Mom discussed what happened at the party). Claire will most likely be convincing Dad that Peter is the Mole.

    I was surprised that Claire wasn't switched as a child as it did look like they were going to do so early in the episode.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2018
  5. Mar 5, 2018 #245 of 470
    series5orpremier

    series5orpremier Well-Known Member

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    And I doubt we’ve seen the last of the original Spencer.
     
  6. Mar 5, 2018 #246 of 470
    Rob Helmerichs

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    Realistically, you can't expect a kid to keep that kind of secret. The years of training (and growing up) were necessary, I think.
     
  7. Mar 5, 2018 #247 of 470
    astrohip

    astrohip Well-Known Raconteur TCF Club

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    That's what pissed me off (about Quayle). He had one job, take advantage of a burned Shadow. And he forking blows it! He's an idiot.
     
  8. Mar 5, 2018 #248 of 470
    Tony_T

    Tony_T Well-Known Member

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    They did with Spencer, he was in her class and sent to the other side ("…on a journey you might make some day")

    Aldus and the teacher, Mira, were discussing it, that's why I thought they were going to do the switch as a child.
    Aldus: "Her Fathers next in line to run Diplomacy"
    Mira: "She's not ready"
    Aldus: "We still have time"
    Mira: "If we make waste of this opportunity, it's on us, not the girl"
    Aldus: "We'll do it right"

    And then they tested Claire's knowledge of her Other, so, they were leading us (well, me) to believe that she would be switched young, so when Claire was then shown as a Teacher, I was surprised (and it was interesting that she changed the Gazelle to a Zebra in her discussion with Ethel, so her memory as a child might not be that good after all).

    I liked that they did it this way…
     
  9. Mar 5, 2018 #249 of 470
    Rob Helmerichs

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    Well, they SAID he was sent to the other side. But I suspected he was simply disposed of because he was interfering with Clare's development (sent to another class, perhaps).
     
  10. Mar 5, 2018 #250 of 470
    Tony_T

    Tony_T Well-Known Member

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    Quayle's not long for this world if Howard can't prove Claire is an "Other" before Claire convinces Dad that Peter is.
     
  11. Mar 5, 2018 #251 of 470
    astrohip

    astrohip Well-Known Raconteur TCF Club

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    I sorta assumed that's what happened also. Since he "was sent to the other side" directly after the incident with Clare, it was too spot-on timing-wise to be anything but elimination. In one form or another.
     
  12. Mar 5, 2018 #252 of 470
    DevdogAZ

    DevdogAZ Give 'em Hell, Devils

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    Except we saw Nadia(Baldwin Alpha)'s funeral and they made a point of showing that no family members were there to get up and speak about her, so an old girlfriend had to do it.
    Alcohol makes people do idiotic things.

    I was very surprised that the Prime side sent Clare over as a virgin. I would think that someone trained all her life to be a spy would also be trained in using seduction and sex as a weapon. But maybe they were monitoring Claire Alpha and knew she was a virgin and wanted to keep her as "authentic" as possible. The fact that Clare Alpha decided to give it up in that short window between Clare Prime making the crossing and Clare Prime taking over was just bad luck.
     
  13. Mar 5, 2018 #253 of 470
    Tony_T

    Tony_T Well-Known Member

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    I didn't get that impression, but now that you mention it, I suspect that you are correct.
     
  14. Mar 5, 2018 #254 of 470
    Rob Helmerichs

    Rob Helmerichs I am Groot! TCF Club

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    Exactly that.
     
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  15. Mar 5, 2018 #255 of 470
    trainman

    trainman Nice to see you

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    No wonder everyone on the Prime side seems so testy. No bacon (or cigarettes).
     
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  16. Mar 5, 2018 #256 of 470
    wtherrell

    wtherrell Active Member

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    I'm confused. Was it Howard alpha or Howard prime who knocked on the door and asked Ricky Fowler if he knew anything about the missing turf?
    What?
    Oh, wait.
    Sometimes I doze off.
     
  17. Mar 5, 2018 #257 of 470
    Anubys

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    Actually, they said the world made a copy of itself. So identical up to 1987 is absolutely the ONLY interpretation. It was one world and then a copy of it was created somehow because of whatever experiment was going on.

    Howard Prime should kill him for this. But I really like that they went away from the standard "find mole, use mole for your own purposes until you kill him". To change it to make her a sympathetic figure whose loyalties are now her child is an excellent twist and raises this show up a couple of notches in excellence for me.

    Completely agree! (I hope you were sitting down and your heart is still good!) :p

    The way they did it led me to believe that Spencer is no more.
     
  18. Mar 5, 2018 #258 of 470
    Anubys

    Anubys All About Footwork

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    So let me get this straight:

    Security is so tight at the crossing that visas are issued and a picture of the person crossing is taken every single time.

    So this woman crosses and never returns and nobody looks for her? because if they looked for her, they would instantly notice that she looks exactly like a high ranking person's daughter* and is also engaged to the deputy director; who quickly becomes a director.

    For this to go unnoticed is beyond unbelievable. Even if they show us later how they got away with it, I am not happy. Answering that question should have been part of this episode.

    * and how in the world isn't every single person crossing not investigated on the other side? oh, person x is crossing from Prime world? let's go investigate who person x Alpha is, what they are doing, and if there is any security risk associated with his Prime being on our world. How is that not a SOP?

    This hole in the story is absolutely unacceptable. I always figured there would be some sort of tunnel or secret passage from one world to the other. Because if there isn't, all this spy stuff is impossible to execute.
     
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  19. Mar 5, 2018 #259 of 470
    Rob Helmerichs

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    He said "They never said the worlds were identical before the flu, just more or less similar on a macro scale"...i.e., during the nine-year span between the split and the flu.
     
  20. Mar 5, 2018 #260 of 470
    series5orpremier

    series5orpremier Well-Known Member

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    But the flu didn’t occur until 1996. Between 1987 and 1996 the worlds were more or less similar in the big picture. I thought they added more ambiguity by saying The Crossing was discovered in 1987. That leaves no way of knowing for sure when the copy was made - it could have been ad infinitum for all we know but I agree I’ll assume it’s close to 1987 because the worlds started out similar to one another. If they coexisted for a long time prior to that there would have already been plenty of divergence due to the randomness already discussed. Unless they’re going to tell us the only thing that drives divergence is interaction between the two worlds and that could have only started when The Crossing was discovered in 1987.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2018

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