Copy protection

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by jilter, Jul 12, 2009.

  1. Jul 12, 2009 #1 of 146
    jilter

    jilter Not.

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    So, have the TivoHD all set up and imagine my surprise when almost everything is prevented from being transferred. Guess I never paid attention much to these threads before since they did not affect me. I gather this is a Comcast thing. I understand but am completely frustrated. I am sorry I ever bothered with the Series 3, because all I really wanted it for was to transfer between upstairs and down.
     
  2. Jul 12, 2009 #2 of 146
    bkdtv

    bkdtv New Member

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    Was there previously a different provider in your service area, such as Brighthouse or TWC?

    In the overwhelming majority of service areas, Comcast only protects the premium movie channels. However, former TWC service areas used to protect almost anything, and some users find that Comcast never changed that after acquiring those systems.
     
  3. Jul 12, 2009 #3 of 146
    astrohip

    astrohip Well-Known Raconteur TCF Club

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    Where are you "happy to be here"? In Houston, Comcast only protects the pay channels (HBO, Starz, etc). Almost all cable content is not protected.
     
  4. Jul 13, 2009 #4 of 146
    lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

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    In that case, I suggest you check out the "other" forum.
     
  5. Jul 13, 2009 #5 of 146
    aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

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    IN my area, Northern VA, Comcast restricts most of the channels, but it is also inconsistent. Even with the premium channels it's inconsistent, some things are protected and some aren't. You never know.
     
  6. Jul 14, 2009 #6 of 146
    seggers

    seggers Member

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    I'm in a TWC area and all my stuff is protected too. I think TWC is just racking it up as well. Be it digital or HD. The only stuff that isnt is the original OTA stuff. Kinda makes have TiVo Desktop a waste of time.

    Seggers.
     
  7. Jul 26, 2009 #7 of 146
    feeferwilly

    feeferwilly New Member

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    I'm on TWC. Record the show in SD. It will remove the copy protection.
     
  8. Jul 26, 2009 #8 of 146
    dlfl

    dlfl Cranky old novice

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    Incorrect. Record it from an analog channel and it won't have the copy protection. I'm on TWC too -- just re-verified digital SD and HD recordings are copy protected unless from an OTA station.

    On my TWC system, and I believe on most, if you have digital service and cable cards the channels that were analog before you got the cable cards will come through as digital (copy protected) versions.
     
  9. Jul 28, 2009 #9 of 146
    JeffRapp

    JeffRapp New Member

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    Ding, ding, ding! I've got the exact same issue. It started when I had the tuning adapter installed. This apparently allowed TWC to set the CCI bit on EVERYTHING. Previously, I could transfer recordings from basic cable - below 100. Now, my TiVo's are on their own private islands. Thanks again, Time Warner!
     
  10. Jul 28, 2009 #10 of 146
    dlfl

    dlfl Cranky old novice

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    TWC sets copy protection on everything it can in most areas. Analog channels just don't have a CCI value to set. In other words technical limitations prevent them from copy protecting analog.

    They tick off a few TiVo owners but that's hardly a microdot on their overall bottom line now or in the future.
     
  11. Jul 28, 2009 #11 of 146
    JeffRapp

    JeffRapp New Member

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    If we're such a small minority and none of their equipment is affected, then why bother setting it universally like they do? Is it just being lazy?
     
  12. Jul 28, 2009 #12 of 146
    JWThiers

    JWThiers Smartypants

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    Because they don't want anyone to use any DVR other than their own to record content. By blocking this functionality it levels the playing field to the lowest common denominator. Which is their equipment. If you take away tivo's advantages like multi-room viewing and Tivo to go, tivo is a DVR that can't do On demand services and requires an external box to get all channels (SDV). IMO still a better DVR, but some do just say why pay for a "crippled" DVR that can't do On Demand and requires a box to get all the channels when I can get one that does everything for free?

    If you really want to get into a conspiracy theory we can get into why they want bandwidth caps to prevent widespread adoption of online video like Amazon and Netflix and other downloaded video.
     
  13. Jul 29, 2009 #13 of 146
    bicker

    bicker bUU

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    And even considering that a "conspiracy" is ridiculous. If people are deriving value from something you're providing them, then it is natural and appropriate for you to find a way to charge them for the value they're deriving. Value-based pricing isn't a conspiracy. It's the state-of-the-art in capitalism. People need to stop thinking that the whole world exists solely to inexpensively provide them what they want.
     
  14. Jul 29, 2009 #14 of 146
    JWThiers

    JWThiers Smartypants

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    If the ISP's were only providing internet access then that is a valid argument. People could just get another ISP and be done with it. The problem is the ISP's are also in the TV content delivery business (had to call it something generic) and they own the data delivery lines going into everybody's homes and now they are just starting to see that the internet is competition in their TV Content Delivery business. IMO its anti competitive to change the way they charge for data services if the reason for it is to stifle competition in their TV content delivery business. Outside of the BIG cities cable TV have virtual monopolies or at best Duopolies in the areas they cover and they are the same people that provide data services. So they are raising prices on data to discourage the use of things like Netflix, Amazon, and Hulu.
     
  15. Jul 29, 2009 #15 of 146
    bicker

    bicker bUU

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    Actually, what I wrote is a valid argument regardless. I respect the fact that you prefer things were different, though.

    I think if folks want an ISP to operate a certain way, that they should build one, and see if they'd continue to operate that way after having to deal with the reality of the business.

    I could see a mechanism sort-of like the old Bell System: Guarantee the ISP 13% return on expense, and then force them to open their pipes to whoever wants to offer service on them. I doubt, though, that many folks here would be happy with how much more expensive things would be. Regulation sounds really good until you actually see that it doesn't actually do magic, and ends up costing you more than before regulation.
     
  16. Jul 29, 2009 #16 of 146
    jonra

    jonra New Member

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    "because all I really wanted it for was to transfer between upstairs and down." Same here. I have the Tivo HDs setup for multi-room and the feature is worthless to me. 80% of what I Tivo is HD or digital on Comcast... however most of the digital HD off the air stuff I think I can transfer. I'll have to check out if I can transfer network (ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS) shows off the air vs. the same HD shows on Comcast. I haven't used the feature in a year, but it's still hooked up.

    So, what I did instead - is an HDMI output splitter 1 to 2 and also use the component output... so I have 3 HDTVS in three rooms hooked up to one HD-Tivo. All 3 have a great picture. You also have to use an infrared remote receiver/transmitter. Problem solved. This way I can watch one of my three HD Tivos in any of three rooms.
     
  17. Jul 29, 2009 #17 of 146
    JWThiers

    JWThiers Smartypants

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    The Cable Co's can NOT set the CCI fllag to anything other than copy freely on the OTA stations. So NBC ABC, CBS, Fox, PBS, WB etc are in the clear as far as MRV is concerned.
     
  18. Jul 29, 2009 #18 of 146
    JeffRapp

    JeffRapp New Member

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    Why can't TiVo do something about this issue? With TWC being one of the largest cable operators in the country, I'm sure many people are stuck with not being able to transfer from box-to-box. It seems that streaming is out of the question due to hardware limitations, so why can't we just move the bits from one box to the next and delete the original? 0x02 (correct me if I'm wrong) means "Copy Once," so moving a recording wouldn't really violate this, right? Granted, this doesn't solve place shifting issues with TTG, but I think it's a decent compromise to view recordings at a different TiVo.
     
  19. Jul 29, 2009 #19 of 146
    bicker

    bicker bUU

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    You answered your own question:
    Given that, TiVo would have to be right in order to make headway on this issue, and they simply wouldn't be. Time Warner is explicitly allowed to do what they're doing. It wasn't an oversight by the regulators. It wasn't a mistake, by them, either.
     
  20. Jul 29, 2009 #20 of 146
    JeffRapp

    JeffRapp New Member

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    I'm not saying that we need more legislation on the issue (maybe we do). From what I've seen, CalbleLabs defines 0x02 as Copy Once. By doing a TiVo-to-TiVo transfer, we're making a second copy, which obviously violates the terms of 0x02. If we, however, move the recording from one TiVo to a different TiVo, *technically* only one copy exists, which should still fit into 0x02 territory.

    If TWC thinks that they should allow only their sub par equipment on their network, then go ahead and let them think that. We have rules and regulations that let us, the consumer, do otherwise. I personally feel that TiVo is within their rights to allow us to move recordings - they shouldn't feel the need to bend to the cable co's hopes and dreams. Granted, they do have to follow CableLabs, but the things they can and cannot do have already been laid out and finalized.
     

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