Copy Protection Flag with TWC

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by socrplyr, Jan 29, 2008.

  1. Aug 23, 2008 #61 of 111
    Gregor

    Gregor Wear Your Mask! TCF Club

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    Can they do that? Certainly. On the Comcast system I am on, I need a cable card to get Discovery HD Theater, and the shows of Discovery HD Theater I can MRV if I want to.

    Will TW let you? That's another question entirely and it seems TW has the most restrictive policies in the industry.
     
  2. Aug 24, 2008 #62 of 111
    m_jonis

    m_jonis Member

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    I believe, in theory, that you would be able to do "whatever" with those shows.

    The cable card acts as an enforcement for any CCI-byte that gets sent.

    Supposedly a Tivo could be modified to ignore such things, but that's a diff. story

    By law, the only things the cable company cannot set is local broadcast signals.

    Unfortunately, our local TW Albany office has chosen for "force" cable card users to get "all digital" so they CAN and DO block digital simulcast channels that are local broadcast (because the local broadcast is in analog). They do not, however, block broadcast local HD channels. Well, they don't NOW, after I complained to them (they did have EVERY single channel set to copy once, and that one copy lives on your Tivo).
     
  3. Aug 24, 2008 #63 of 111
    [NG]Owner

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    Isn't that what I said here:

     
  4. Aug 24, 2008 #64 of 111
    CuriousMark

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    How about Cable in the Classroom. If a teacher cannot Transfer a show to her computer and burn a DVD because of TWC, that would be in conflict with the goals of cable in the classroom.
     
  5. Aug 25, 2008 #65 of 111
    m_jonis

    m_jonis Member

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    That's a possibility. Not sure if anyone's actually used that argument successfully against TWC
     
  6. Aug 26, 2008 #66 of 111
    ncbagwell

    ncbagwell New Member

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    I can't find the thread but I seem to remember someone trying that route. The answer was that the teacher could just take their Tivo into the classroom with them and hook it up to a TV. Pretty lame, but I guess that falls in line with their "you can copy it once and that copy lives on your Tivo" argument.
     
  7. Aug 26, 2008 #67 of 111
    CuriousMark

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    That's lame but believable.

    Isn't TWC accepting all legal liability for restraint of fair use when they do this without direction from the owner of the content? Why would they want to take on risk unnecessarily?

    I am in a TWC area and was planning to switch from DTV to cable when I go HiDef in about a year. Hopefully this will all be worked out by then.
     
  8. Aug 30, 2008 #68 of 111
    berkshires

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    No, TWC is doing what they are allowed to do under the system that was created. The system needs to be changed or the cable cos. need to be pressured into changing their use of the existing system.

    I wish TiVo would make some comments, and I wish people would start complaining heavily to the FCC and asking the content providers like HDNET to support them.

    The same sort of process that led to getting a Tunning Adapter to solve the SDV problem (which TiVo had a major hand in) should be used to resolve the heavy handed (and uneven-handed) use of Copy Flag.
     
  9. Sep 2, 2008 #69 of 111
    masterwick

    masterwick Member

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    Well, after a few weeks of calls not returned by TWC (i.e. Sandra Lidia), I have decided they/she firmly believe
    1) Nothing is wrong with their system and it my end, i.e. Tivo OR
    2) They/she knows now they are intentional sending ths signal and nothing they can do to change OR
    3) They could care less about my problems

    Since I am out of town, my wife called Tivo concerning this issue. They mentioned something about 9.4.0 software update reset the CCI byte flags on the CC. They put a note in our file on how instructions to fix this issue. When I (or my wife) gets time, we will conference in Tivo with TWC to see if they can resolve this issue.

    With TWC persistence of a non-issue, I firmly believe Tivo needs to step-in somehow to help resolve this issue. It is very detrimintal to Tivo if all cable companies follow TWC leads in the CCI scheme.
     
  10. Sep 2, 2008 #70 of 111
    bhoch99

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    I recently called my TWC provider in NH. They didn't seem to want to help, saying that it was the decision of the networks and not TWC to set the CCI byte. Not sure if they fully understood the problem.

    I also called the Tivo Cablecard hotline, but the person at the other end was not able to do much other than give me the number for TWC corporate headquarters.

    Tivo really needs to do something about this. I could see if it was just a small cable provider somewhere in rural america, but TWC has over 7 million digital cable subscribers nationwide. Tivo needs to talk to TWC and tell them to set the CCI byte properly. Individual subscribers simply don't have the power to make this change in TWC policy happen on their own.

    Either that, or Tivo needs to add another disclaimer to their packaging.

    Anybody know a good lawyer?

    BH
     
  11. Sep 10, 2008 #71 of 111
    [NG]Owner

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    and later,

    followed by, in order,

    All of us have asked Tivo for assistance in getting TWC straightened out. Can't the powers that be here at Tivo Community, or others here that have the ear of Tivo muckety-mucks, guide those Tivo execs over here to lay some wisdom upon us? Help us prepare a battle plan? Help us to help ourselves? Certainly this is a looming issue as people like us replace our Series 2 units with Series 3/HD units. Can't Tivo see that?

    [NG]Owner
     
  12. Sep 13, 2008 #72 of 111
    Rez

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    Let me add another "me too" to this issue. TWC Austin seems to have recently started flagging a lot of channels to prevent copying.

    Reading through this thread it appears calling front line tech support is fairly worthless, does anyone here have a better contact at TWC Austin? Or should I try going straight to TiVo and see if they will attempt contact?
     
  13. Sep 13, 2008 #73 of 111
    lrhorer

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    It's simply false. By statute it is entirely the CATV provider's prerogative. The network can set the byte if they choose, but it is entirely up to the CATV provider whether they pass on the byte or change it themselves, except in certain specific circumstances.

    Why don't you post that number here? Significant numbers of people calling in could have an affect.

    There's not much they can do authoritatively. Highly placed TiVo officials can make contact either on or off the record with their counterparts at TWC, but that's about it. The TWC officials are under no compulsion to respond at all, let alone positively.

    Legally and officially, neither does TiVo. Of those 7 million subscribers, at most not much more than 100,000 are Series III Tivo owners. Neither those 100,000 subs nor TiVo has as much clout with TWC as Time Warner Entertainment, whose movies get the byte set (which in their minds means more rental and purchase royalties) or any of the other movie studios.

    Yeah, but I certainly can't afford to pay him to take on an issue like this. Can you?
     
  14. Sep 13, 2008 #74 of 111
    m_jonis

    m_jonis Member

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    Well I finally got an answer from my electronic complaint to the FCC that TWC had set the CCI byte on ALL channels (including our local broadcast channels) to "copy once" (which means you cannot transfer them off the Tivo).

    You know what their response was?

    A 2-page PDF that described compatibility between cable TV and digital receivers.

    That's it. A stupid PDF that doesn't even address the complaint!

    What a bunch of morons.
     
  15. Sep 13, 2008 #75 of 111
    lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

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    I always thought "morons" was spelled "FCC".
     
  16. Sep 22, 2008 #76 of 111
    Austin_Martin

    Austin_Martin New Member

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    Anyone have any update on this issue?

    I'm using Time Warner Austin, and most of my recordings are unable to copy to the other machine.
     
  17. Sep 22, 2008 #77 of 111
    nedlog89

    nedlog89 New Member

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    what can I do to stop tivo central and PAUSE from timing out and going to live tv on my series 3 ?
     
  18. Sep 22, 2008 #78 of 111
    masterwick

    masterwick Member

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    No update from TWC in Dallas (McKinney) area. I have practically given up working with TWC (actually they have given up on me). Like we all said before all of us calling the C.C hotline might cause a stir and/or do the same with TiVo and complain you just may go back to the TWC pos cable box because Tivo's are castrated on TWC.

    This is a very infortunate situation that Tivo seems to be ignoring the largest cable company in the country actions with over copy protection.
     
  19. Sep 22, 2008 #79 of 111
    Austin_Martin

    Austin_Martin New Member

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    In the other thread, I posted the email response from the HDNet senior engineer. He says that he will have someone contact Time Warner to find out about the situation. Hopefully they will be more responsive to them.

    I'm wondering if this is part of Time Warners plan. Don't let any functionality that is better than the one that they are using get a foothold.

    One way to get back might be to get a dvr from TW. Then every time a program is not recorded, phone them for a replacement dvr. Since when I used that crap box I had programs every week not get recorded, it might get them to notice.
     
  20. Sep 29, 2008 #80 of 111
    ejunkie

    ejunkie New Member

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    After paying big bucks from my S3 Tivo I am very frustrated that I paid more money to get less features.

    First I spoke to Tivo who pointed me to the CCI byte issue and TWC. Sort of wish I knew that BEFORE I spent ~$1K on a locked down box.

    Then I called TWC (also in Albany,NY) the CSR rep kept trying to send someone to my house, no idea about the issue. After repeatedly telling me it was not their problem and me politely asking to speak to a supervisor I got thru to someone else. The supervisor took the information and told me she would check on it in the back office and post the information to me account.

    I also logged onto the FCC website and filed a compliant there.

    Based on the various postings it appears that none of these actions is likely to have an impact.

    I hate the cable company and sympathize with Tivo who invented this whole business. I am giving it a week or so and then TiVo is going to get their system back. Maybe then they will realize it is time to go toe to toe with TWC or throw in the towel.

    Tivo without transfer, is just not worth the money.
     

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