Converting Satellite Wiring to Tivo Setup

Heya, Larry, welcome.

Great start on the effort, including the problem description details and special kudos for the diagrams.

You seem exceedingly close to having everything you need, except for that permanent coax run from your antenna to your Roamio OTA.

Short of the other alternatives (running a new OTA cable to the Family Room; moving your Roamio OTA to the office and putting a Mini out in the Family Room), could the antenna be run to the splitter location, instead? If so, you'll have a couple options for getting the antenna signal to your Roamio OTA. (The options can be discussed further, as needed.)

As for MoCA, you seem to have everything you need, assuming that 4-way splitter is MoCA-compatible (rated to 1675MHz or above), and there's not some unmentioned amplifier in the setup. And you should only need the single MoCA adapter, since your Roamio OTA will be able to connect via Ethernet.

Depending on how the Family Room and Roamio connect back to your coax splitter, you may have a couple options for how to install the MoCA adapter: at the modem/router location (certainty), or at the Roamio location with both the MoCA adapter and Roamio connected to an Ethernet switch (option would also require the Family Room coax outlet connect back to the 4-way coax splitter).

Happy MoCA'ing...
Karl

 

One thing remains a mystery to me, related to the above...

Did you have a single coax run from the cable box to your office, or were there 2 coax runs to this particular location: one for the cable modem and one for a satellite set-top box?

 

I lied.

Depending on your final coax configuration and how MoCA is enabled, you should expect to need a "PoE" MoCA filter installed, likely on the input to the 4-way splitter.

More on "PoE" MoCA filters, here: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10707966

 

Your inventory and diagrams do indicate you did the research. Again, kudos.

First, yeah, the Family Room shouldn't be connected to the input of the splitter, in a typical setup. But *your* final connections will depend on exactly what's to be distributed over your coax lines.

In the meantime, going back to my previous question, with your DISH cables pulled and cable runs connected to the outputs of your 4-way splitter, how is your cable modem now connected to your Internet provider's signal? (Again, I'm trying to determine if there are 2 separate cable runs to the office, or just a single run. Did your office not have a DISH hookup?)

With your 4-way splitter connected as-is, do you have any unused ports on the splitter? How many total coax lines currently connect to that splitter, including the Family Room on the input? (At a minimum, you'll want to attach a 75-ohm terminator cap to any unused splitter ports; the preferred solution would be to use a splitter with exactly as many ports as needed, to avoid unnecessary signal loss.)

 

It sounds like you may just want to get everything working, if possible, with the temporary coax strung from the antenna to the Roamio in the Family Room, and then evolve the solution from there...??? If the preferred plan is to run the dedicated OTA antenna coax line to the Family Room, instead of the Office, then this would be the way to go.

In such a scenario, would you run a second coax line to the Roamio OTA location, then, for the antenna, while keeping the existing coax run to the splitter in place?

The Roamio will be able to communicate with the Minis via the Ethernet connection, and so the OTA programming, managed by the Roamio OTA, would reach the Minis via the network. If the antenna is run directly to the Roamio, that coax run from the splitter to the Family Room could possibly remain unused.

Were you looking for the OTA antenna signal to only reach the Roamio and have the TiVo whole-home solution get the OTA programming to each TV location, or were you also wanting the OTA signal to be available on the coax line at each TV, in parallel to the TiVo whole-home solution, so that the TVs could tune the antenna signal, themselves, as a backup (or supplement) to the TiVos?

Noted.

True, but only when the Mini was in use (watching live programming), which would be the same case for the Roamio. In the early days of the Mini, any additional Mini required a dedicated tuner from the host DVR; now the Minis only consume a DVR when they need one, like for watching live TV (or on demand content, for Comcast customers with the XOD4TiVo app).

Though another reason to keep the Roamio in the Family Room is because it offers a better channel surfing experience.

So Roamio stays in the Family Room. Noted.

Got it. And this could wait until later, going with the "get it working and evolve" approach -- though the dedicated coax run to the Roamio OTA may be the best solution, anyway.

Check. Well done.

On the Internet cable, natch! (will discuss/detail in a bit)

Yep, and that's where the positioning of the MoCA adapter comes in. (This is where the dedicated OTA antenna run to the Roamio OTA will be especially handy.)

Ah, roger! Again, well done.

 

I threw a lot at you previously, so it's completely reasonable that one or more questions were missed. I could use the following into to make a final recommendation...

Is your cable Internet coax currently run directly to the Office, bypassing the 4-way splitter?

Did you have any plans on putting a Mini in the Office? (new question, actually)

 

Also, in terms of having the necessary ingredients...

• Do you already have an Ethernet switch at the Family Room location, or do you have a spare Ethernet switch sitting around somewhere (or could quickly acquire one)? If yes, what brand/model is the switch (mostly interested in whether it's Fast Ethernet vs Gigabit)?
  
  
• What is the brand/model number of your MoCA adapter?
  
  
• What are the brand & model of your cable modem and router?

 

First stab at recommendation, with picture instead of words (mostly)... see attached.

​

I need to produce the diagram for the yellow region (now available below), but the Family Room setup, as depicted, should meet your desire to keep as much traffic as possible off your Ethernet network, by locating the MoCA adapter at the Roamio OTA. As connected, all the heavy TiVo Multi-Room Streaming (MRS) traffic will be on the Family Room switch, strictly between the Roamio OTA and the MoCA adapter ports, with the MoCA adapter then feeding the Minis via coax. The lighter Internet streaming and service/guide update traffic would then run up the Ethernet line to the router and beyond.

The Ethernet switch in the Family Room is necessary to allow the single MoCA adapter to both create your MoCA network (on the coax run heading back to the cable box) as well as supply the Roamio OTA with its network connection. As a side benefit, the Ethernet switch will also allow for connection to any other Ethernet devices in the Family Room. (I'm half-guessing you have an Ethernet switch there, already.)

edit: p.s. Another benefit of using this approach, rather than locating the MoCA adapter at the router, is that TiVo Multi-Room Streaming between the Roamio and Minis would continue to function even through a reboot of the router.

 

I haven't read all of krkaufman's input. I'm sure he's covered everything but just from reading the OP, this is the quick version of what I see...

The proposed setup is pretty close.

- An OTA coax run to the Roamio is pretty much mandatory. This has to be separate and indepdendent from the cable feed.

- The Roamio will need a wired internet connection. You appear to have ethernet planned for that room, so that's fine (and probably preferred for the sake of setup simplicity.)

- The Minis being connected to the internet cable feed is doable.


It's actually not too hard... The moca adapter gets connected to the cable modem/router in the standard way (pic below). With the Roamio connected to the network by ethernet, they should all see each other.

A POE filter gets installed on the input side of the cable coax's primary splitter.

 

And here's one way to wire the cable box (yellow highlighted area in previous diagram) to get you setup with MoCA networking between THREE of your rooms:

• Family Room
• Living Room
• Master Bedroom

​

The Office would have direct access to the router, so extending MoCA networking to the Office should be unnecessary. (... but can be addressed if/when you're looking to add a Mini in there)

A couple additional benefits of the setup as described by these two diagrams are:

• Your MoCA network is isolated from both your cable Internet provider *and* your OTA antenna, so installation of a "PoE" MoCA filter is unnecessary;
  
  
• With the MoCA network isolated in this manner, connecting the MoCA adapter at the head-end of the coax tree (input of the splitter) provides the best MoCA connection quality of the available options (per recent testing, here).

Note that this *is* a non-standard implementation, but, I believe, one best-tailored to your requirements (as I understand them).

 

The Fast Ethernet switch will be just fine from the standpoint of the Roamio OTA and Actontec MoCA adapter -- as both only have Fast Ethernet ports. And that switch being there fits perfectly with the suggested Family Room setup diagrammed above.

Upgrading to a Gigabit switch would only be necessary if you felt a need for your Xbox. (Though I'd think you'd first need an Internet connection capable of exceeding 100Mbps down or up.) Regardless, that's not a factor in getting your TiVo and MoCA setup running. The existing switch will suffice.

One thing to note is that between the router LAN connection, Roamio OTA, MoCA adapter and Xbox you'll already have filled 4 Ethernet ports on your switch. And you could count on filling another if TiVo has a sale on the TiVo Stream. ('gist: You may want to keep your eyes on sales for 8-port switches; or not, if the Stream isn't a consideration.)

Thanks. The specific model became less important with the suggested setup where the cable Internet line will be isolated from MoCA. (Some modems aren't compatible with MoCA and require an additional MoCA filter on the input.)

Chuckle. Yeah, it'll probably be good to get that cable re-routed before it's flattened.

If you decide you'd prefer to route it through the cable box, that can be addressed.

Excellent; both fit with the suggested config diagrams. (guessed right... woot!/phew...)

Based on your previous comment, that the Family Room was routed into the input on your 4-way splitter, and that the cable Internet was a direct run to the Office, you may not have much/anything to do in the cable box to get basic MoCA connectivity to the Living Room & Master Bedroom working.

That said, you will need to get out there, on your schedule, to verify connections, and ideally swap-out the existing equipment for more appropriate gear. At a minimum, you'll want to put 75-ohm terminator caps on any unused splitter ports, if you can't downgrade to a MoCA-compatible 2-way.

Speaking of terminators, you'll want to get one on the unused "RF Out" port of the MoCA adapter, as well.

 

5/6) If both the office and FR are getting a good OTA signal, then there's no reason not to keep doing the signal splitting. An absolutely dedicated line to the Roamio is not mandatory. By separate and independent, I just meant it had to be a separate feed from the cable line as the OTA and internet can't be combined to a single coax.

edit: Nevermind. Glad it works. lol.

 

Most excellent.

Nice bonus.

Still some cleanup to do out in that cable box, as well.

Also, you might want to assess your MoCA signal quality at both your Minis. See the following post for more info:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10714214​

edit: p.s. You should observe a slight boost in quality if you compare measurements before and after swapping the 4-way splitter with a MoCA-compatible 2-way. (And I'd be interested in hearing what your Minis are reading, at either stage.)