Confessions of a heretic

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by Falkor, Dec 1, 2019.

  1. Mikeguy

    Mikeguy Well-Known Member

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    LOL. Nah--they don't want the $2.99/video viewing, they want the $100 Broadway ticket price. Even if the streaming revenue is coming from a worldwide audience and the Broadway ticket prices only from people coming to New York City (plus from the limited amount of touring companies). I'm sure that there also is a righteous amount of fear about video streams going rogue, "running" the investment. Despite all of this, and while I haven't read any studies, what I seem to see in practice is that the musical put into movie form (whether in movie theaters or streamed) actually advances rather than hinders the live performance and the underlying property for the future--there's nothing like real, live people enacting these things right before your eyes--and the movie can almost become an ad for the real thing.
     
  2. NorthAlabama

    NorthAlabama tabasco rules

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    sweet home, al
    nothing wrong with speaking your truth, but don't attempt to then claim it's a universal truth - as many comcast customer's have commented, this isn't our experience, not at all, and not in the least - and millions of comcast cusotmers agree.
     
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  3. NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

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    What would be the point of using a TiVo simply as an Xfinity streaming box? Why bother paying for a TiVo in that case? Seems like you'd be better off buying a Roku or Apple TV, both of which are less expensive than a TiVo, and a far better streamer.
     
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  4. Falkor

    Falkor Member

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    Original point missed. The Stream app would give access to On Demand while letting me keep the superior TiVo interface for live/recorded tv.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  5. Bigg

    Bigg Cord Cutter

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    It is a universal truth. The cable channels are compressed to hell in Denver, and sent out via IP fiber nationwide to cable headends. You are seeing the same garbage that the rest of us see. If you have a way too small TV way too far away, you need your prescription updated, you are oblivious, you only watch CNN/MSNBC/FNC, or whatever, that's on your end, but it doesn't change the factual reality that Comcast's compression causes severe degradation of the video quality compared to the master feeds coming off of C-band or what other providers are re-compressing with more bandwidth and VBR.

    It is possible for some video processing systems in certain TV models to smooth out any jiggies and jaggies that Comcast creates, and they don't have that many of them to begin with, as they throw a LOT of CPU power at their compression, but there is no way to make up for losing more than 50% of the pixels on 1080i channels, and more importantly, losing a huge amount of visual information, especially during motion scenes, which cause the image to be blurry and lacking detail. Once you lose the data, you can't get it back.

    Comcast is beyond the limit for what MPEG-4 can reasonably do, and they have thrown a massive amount of CPU power at software IP encoding in order to get there. Local stations are compressing almost as much with MPEG-2, but the difference there is that they both preserve the original resolution for NBC, CBS, and PBS at 1080i, and they also use enough VBR in order to allow a stat mux to allocate bandwidth for motion scenes the vast majority of the time. That, combined with a little bit more bandwidth (roughly 8-8.5mbps average for OTA in some cases, versus 3.8mbps CBR for Comcast assuming MPEG-2 is exactly 50% as efficient as MPEG-4, which is the common wisdom), makes for a MUCH more watchable image. Comcast got lazy with CBR and slotting so that they can compress once nationwide, not many times for different local/regional stat muxes. I believe they could offer good video quality at an average of 5mbps MPEG-4 if they used a stat mux or 6mbps without a stat mux with their level of CPU power.
     
  6. trip1eX

    trip1eX Well-Known Member

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    Yeah but the point wasn't about taking over the theatre business and/or continually making the show available via streaming . It was about airing the show once via streaming instead of PBS so you can't record it. ;)
     
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  7. Mikeguy

    Mikeguy Well-Known Member

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    Got it. It's an interesting posture--the producers, et al. apparently want to have the shows broadcast on PBS--I'm guessing, there's prestige from that, it gets the shows in front of people (including those who wouldn't be able to see the shows otherwise), and perhaps there's a feeling of honor in doing so--but don't want them to be broadcast too much. ;)
     
  8. NorthAlabama

    NorthAlabama tabasco rules

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    sweet home, al
    no.
     
  9. Bigg

    Bigg Cord Cutter

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    Of course you aren't providing any actual information, because I actually know how their system works, and I have researched the topic extensively. I don't know why you are arguing against the truth.
     
  10. Falkor

    Falkor Member

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    Slightly random question now that the topic ran off the rails days ago ...

    The assorted “Go” apps, like HBO Go, ...do they pull the content from the the sponsors’ servers or the channels’ servers? is HBO Now better quality?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  11. NorthAlabama

    NorthAlabama tabasco rules

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    sweet home, al
    your mind is made up, and you're not interested in any information other than what you decided is the truth, so there's no point in providing additional information.

    you're more interested in bullying others into submission than having a legitimate discusison. your only goal is an attempt to prove you're right, all comcast customers who disagree are wrong, and those who disagree with you are also somehow less than you - they're ignorant, uninformed, have lousy equipment, don't know better, have no experience - anything to insult others in your feeble attempt to prop up your own opinion and make yourself feel secure at the expense of those who disagree.

    it's not that some of your points don't have at least minimal legitimacy, but you then expand and blow that up into unreasonable and untenable positions, dig in your heels, and refuse to participate in any reasonable discussion if it differs from your opinion in the least - and, what's worse, you know my critique is true, and still won't back down - that immediately discredits any of your research because of your alienation of others with your approach, meaning they'll never hear you.

    have fun feeling secure in being wrong.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
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  12. mattack

    mattack Well-Known Member

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    other than that, did you like the play, Mrs Lincoln?

    That's a MAAAAAJOR thing to ignore...

    Also, for me, even though nowadays I use streaming services for _as many_ shows as I can to watch entirely commercial free, I still tivo as a backup.. because shows EXPIRE from the streaming services. They're not available forever on the X1, are they? I doubt it.

    You don't have unlimited (virtual) storage, do you? Doubt it.

    Though it's via a backdoor, can you go up to 1.9x? I use that a LOT now, and avoid downloading as many shows and watching via VLC because of that.
     
  13. tenthplanet

    tenthplanet Well-Known Member

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    As I understand it HBO Go and HBO Now should be of the same quality streaming off the same servers. Quality of streaming being subject to internet traffic, congestion, what have you. If you're watching off a satellite and or a cable system that doesn't overly compress the signal, a live HBO signal has the potential to look better since you're not dealing with adaptive streaming.
    With the Discovery apps (Discovery Go, Food Network Go, and some others), the streaming does not look as good as a live feed or a recording from a live feed. It doesn't look bad but it just isn't as good as a live feed or recording of such. Of course you use apps away from home, that's the trade off.
    I have used both HBO Now and the Cinemax on demand, some of the series and movies look quite good these days. The only times things really can fall apart is a real-time event like everybody trying to stream the last episode of 'Game of Thrones'. The internet is still scaling up for massive real-time events.
     
  14. Bigg

    Bigg Cord Cutter

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    They both pull from HBO, and they both do a mediocre job with VQ. If you get it through Prime, I believe it's coming from Amazon's servers, and Amazon does the encoding, making the VQ much better. I don't know how Apple TV handles HBO in particular, but they do some of their own streaming from their own CDN, but I don't know about the actual encoding of the files.

    I understand the factual reality of Comcast's video compression here, and you don't want to accept the reality. It's the same reality, as it's bit for bit the same compression nationwide for cable channels that are received in Denver, which is the vast majority of them. I believe some ESPN channels were done locally for a while and were still MPEG-2 due to regional blackout/substitution, but I don't think that's the case anymore.

    I'm not bullying anyone, I am simply correcting people like you who are WRONG in claiming that Comcast doesn't severely degrade VQ on their cable channels. That is factually and demonstrably WRONG. You have provided ZERO information about Comcast's VQ, just a statement that some people don't have poor VQ, which is factually WRONG, since they're getting bit for bit the same garbage that I see here in CT. I don't care what you do to the signal, you can run it through a Lumagen Radiance or a Sony X950G and remove every jiggy and jaggy in the entire picture, and it's still going to be a blurry, over-compressed mess. There is no way around that. No amount of AI upscaling or any other processing can put the original data back into the image that Comcast lost in their compression process.

    I don't take any unreasonable positions. I can back everything I say up with data about bitrates, VBR vs. CBR, as well as extensive observations about several different providers and their relative VQ. Anyone who actually HAS Comcast can look at their TV and they will KNOW that I'm right, unless their TV is way too small, or their prescription is a mess, the former of which is easy to figure out based on THX guidelines, or other similar guidelines like Crutchfield, AVSForum, etc, and they probably know if they have a bad prescription and can't read road signs or books or whatever their particular issues are. And given that I have described why their VQ sucks in detail, if someone only watches MSNBC/CNN/FNC, then they will know why their VQ is more or less OK (although MSNBC and CNN do lose detail in the graphics due to losing 55.6% of their resolution to the down-conversion process).
     

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