Coming back to Tivo and will be using MOCA - A few questions

Discussion in 'TiVo Bolt DVR/Streamer' started by tgoulart, Sep 27, 2016.

  1. tgoulart

    tgoulart New Member

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    Dec 21, 2013
    New England

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    I was a Lifetime sub for DirecTV with Tivo up until 10 years ago. I subsequently moved have been with TWC ever since. I am about to add a 3rd TV and want to go back to Tivo. I am considering a Bolt 1TB box along with 2 minis. My current setup is coax into the house with an amplifiers and splitters wired (via coax) to 5 rooms. Only 2 of the locations have TV's today (office and family room) but I have confirmed a signal at each of the other 3 locations.

    I will place the Bolt in my office next to the router and have one mini in the family room and the other in the master bedroom ("new" location). Since I don't have ethernet throughout the house I plan on using MOCA.

    If I connect the Bolt to my router and then connect the coax coming from the wall (and perform the appropriate set up and configuration on the Bolt), can I assume it's as easy as connecting the 2 minis to the coax coming from the wall? Don't know if it matters, but I also have home phone from TWC.
     
  2. thyname

    thyname Well-Known Member

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    Dec 26, 2010
    N. Virginia
    That's sounds like a good plan. A few things to consider:

    In the setup that you described, you will have Bolt create MoCA, and Minis would connect to internet and host via MoCA (coaxial)

    Make sure the splitters are MoCA compatible.

    See below for an example:

    https://www.amazon.com/Verizon-Spli...458&sr=1-1&keywords=verizon+moca+splitter+2.0

    You will need a POE filter to where the main cable feed comes into the house, and potentially to the modem input.

    Not sure if your cable company requires tuning adapters for SDV channels.

    Since you will have three tv totals, and Minis will use two out of the four tuners on "base" Bolt, you may want to consider the six-tuner Bolt+ (has 3 TB of space), or even a Roamio Pro (cheaper than Bolt+, but not by much, and also it is previous generation).

    That's what I can say, I am sure others may have more.

    P.S. Amplifier can do funny things to MoCA. See if you don't need it at all.
     
  3. fcfc2

    fcfc2 Well-Known Member

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    Feb 19, 2015
    The location of the Bolt nearby the router is good and you can use the "create a MoCA network" on the Bolt.
    The part of your post which give me pause is the "amplifiers and splitters" statement. This indicates questionable coax runs and either poor quality materials or workmanship. The main reasons for MoCA problems are exactly that kind of setup, incompatible amps, poor quality cabling or cascaded splitters etc.
    How many amps do you have and what is their make and model number?
    You will need probably 2 MoCA filters, one for the input of the first splitter to enter your home (POE, Point of Entry). one more for the tuning adapter, which I believe TWC uses, and possibly a 3rd for the input of the TWC gateway/cable modem if it is not MoCA friendly.
    If you can provide a diagram or even a hand drawing of your coax / equipment setup it would be very helpful.
     
  4. tgoulart

    tgoulart New Member

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    Dec 21, 2013
    New England
    Thanks for the responses. I do plan on taking an inventory of the splitters and amplifiers in the basement this evening and also make sure I can trace the routes of the cables to the various destinations.
     
  5. newsmark

    newsmark New Member

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    Jul 12, 2005

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    When I was installing, the only splitters I could find locally that would handle the MOCA frequencies were designated "satellite" in the store packaging. They work fine.
     
  6. tgoulart

    tgoulart New Member

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    Dec 21, 2013
    New England
    Here's my wiring diagram. Your further thoughts are appreciated. The outputs from the splitter top right marked UNK go to rooms but were not marked. I believe one goes to a BR and another goes to a mud room. Neither of these are used.
     

    Attached Files:

  7. wthomas69

    wthomas69 Member

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    Nov 27, 2009
    something to consider and just my two cents worth. I recently bought a refurbished 500 GB bolt directly from TiVo's website it was on sale for 125 instead of the normal 150. I then purchased to TiVo minis from Amazon, last week they were $149 each today they are $130 each. So for less than $400 you can have all of your hardware. It is just me and my wife in our home and we are pretty good about deleting shows after we watch them so the 500 gig model was plenty for us. My wife loves the ability to use only one box to watch live TV, recorded shows from the DVR, and streaming services like YouTube and Netflix. I also had one room where I wanted to use a mini but in my case I chose ethernet over power line rather than mocha. I have never used mocha so I can't say anything about it. But I knew the ethernet over power line adapter worked because I have use them in my sons room (away in college) where he connected his PS four and was easily able to do online gaming and streaming using the adapter. Good luck and enjoy.
     
  8. thyname

    thyname Well-Known Member

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    Dec 26, 2010
    N. Virginia
    Powerline can be hit or miss.

    If you have coax in every room, try to use MoCa . See the thread I just started with my own experiences:

    http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=543885
     
  9. steelersruleman

    steelersruleman Member

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    Aug 29, 2014
    NW Pennsylvania
    Powerline has come a very long way, and the newer Powerline Adapters work extremely well. Much better than ones made 5-7 years ago.

    I have TWC out of Western PA. I have Ultimate Internet with download speeds of 50Mbps, and uploads of 5-6Mbps.

    I use a Netgear 6300 Wifi Router, connected to a SB183 Modem.

    TWC DOES use SDV, so a tuning adapter, plus M-cable card is necessary for EVERY TIVO(outside of OTA).

    I use the Netgear Powerline Adapter(PLP1200-100PAS). I use over 4 adapters around the house.

    Connected to the Powerline Adapter, I get about 40-43Mbps Download, and the 5Mbps Upload.

    On older Adapters, i was "lucky" to get 10Mbps, which for Tivo Streaming, or Mini's(I use one), it was pretty useless.

    But those PLP1200-100PAS did the trick. They are the latest available, and do work really well.

    Another option to consider is a WiFi Extender in one of the rooms. I use a Linksys AC750 WiFi extender in one room. It has an Ethernet Port on the bottom of the unit, and speeds on that are even better than the Powerline(I get my expected 50Mbps or higher on Download).

    With the WiFi extender though, I think you can only use one in the house at a time since they would interfere with each other.

    Not 100% sure on that, but they may.

    Good Luck.

    P.S. I use/have a TIVO Roamio 4-tuner.
     
  10. tgoulart

    tgoulart New Member

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    Dec 21, 2013
    New England
    Thanks Thyname. I already use a powerline adapter which works really well in another room. Since the master bedroom is the only place getting an ethernet run will be very difficult, I am considering not moving forward with the MOCA and using the powerline adapter fot the bedroom location. I am also not in love at all wiht the idea of a large adapter.

    Having said that, I will read through your thread.
     
  11. thyname

    thyname Well-Known Member

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    Dec 26, 2010
    N. Virginia
    That's the third tv location (based on your original post), right? And you have coax there?

    If you do have coax there, just to be clear, you don't need a MoCA adapter, Mini has it built in. In other words, your Bolt (next to the router) will create the MoCA network, and Mini will simply join it via the coax run to the bedroom.

    I don't see why not trying it this way first.
     
  12. tgoulart

    tgoulart New Member

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    Dec 21, 2013
    New England
    Thanks. I understand and you do have the locations correct. I'm not crazy with the idea of the large adapter. Part of the reasons for me doing this is to "skinny down" the size and number of devices. We will likely be building an addition next year, and the current master bedroom will become a guest room. When the addition is complete, I will have ethernet every where I need it. It's likely we won't use the TV in what is now the current master bedroom at all when the building is complete.
     
  13. fcfc2

    fcfc2 Well-Known Member

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    Feb 19, 2015
    Hi again,
    If I am reading your diagram correctly, there is a fair chance that you will not need either of the amps and can replace them with simple low loss barrel connectors which is what I recommend. Only use /connect coax that is being used.
    If you determine that your signal is not strong enough, you might consider placing that Antronix amp first, just before the 3 unbalanced 3 way splitter and see if that gives you adequate signal quality. The 3dB port on the 3 way should give you the strongest/ cleanest signal so you might have to experiment switching things around to see which works best for you.
    You will also need a MoCA POE /Whole Home DVR filter which I recommend you place on the input of that 3 way splitter.
    You don't mention which cable modem you use or if the cable company uses Tuning Adapters, but you may need additional filters for these devices.
     
  14. tgoulart

    tgoulart New Member

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    Dec 21, 2013
    New England
    Thanks for these details. I was hoping someone would comment on the switches and amp. I did just realize I do have one of the cables in the diagram flowing in the wrong direction (arrow at the wrong end). I'm sure you realized the bottom connector in the first splitter in the sequence is sending the signal TO the amp. Essentially the amp is amplifying the signals sent to the points physically furthest from the incoming line from the street; essentially the second floor and mudroom.

    I have my own Cable Modem...ARRIS SURFboard SB6141. And everything I've read leads me to conclude I will need the tuning adapter (TWC cable) if I use MOCA.
     
  15. thyname

    thyname Well-Known Member

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    Dec 26, 2010
    N. Virginia
    Not sure what you are referring to when saying "large adapter". As I said, when/if using MoCA, there is no adapter required with Mini. Basically, there is a coax cable coming from the wall to the Mini, and that's it.
     
  16. fcfc2

    fcfc2 Well-Known Member

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    Feb 19, 2015
    The way I read your diagram, you have one amp feeding another amp and both of them are only feeding one coax to the MBR. The only signal that will be traveling to the MBR is the MoCA frequency feeding one mini. Unless your coax and or fittings are of extremely poor quality or the length of that run exceeds 300 ft., it should not require nor benefit from any amplification. Generally amps which are MoCA friendly are referred to as "MoCA Bypass" amps, meaning that only the lower <1GHz frequencies are being boosted, and nothing is done to the higher MoCA frequencies at all. Since only MoCA is going to the MBR, the barrel connectors are the best bet.
    You will need one additional 2 way splitter (MoCA rated recommended) to feed the TA and the other leg going to the Tivo DVR. A second MoCA filter should be placed on the leg feeding the TA. You may want to use that 3dB leg from the 3 way to feed the TA/Tivo splitter.
    EDIT: Your cable modem has a builtin MoCA filter so none is needed for it.
     
  17. tgoulart

    tgoulart New Member

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    Dec 21, 2013
    New England
    Apologies if I am not being clear. I understand no digital tuning adapter is needed with the minis. I am understanding I need an adapter with the Bolt as TWC is my provider. And this adapter approximates the size of a cable box.

    Can someone also confirm (I can't find the thread) that I will lose TWC On Demand as well as Start Over?
     
  18. steelersruleman

    steelersruleman Member

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    Aug 29, 2014
    NW Pennsylvania
    Yes. You lose BOTH on Demand and Start Over when using a Tuning Adapter, and M-CableCard with TWC.

    You need their STB for these services.
     
  19. thyname

    thyname Well-Known Member

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    Dec 26, 2010
    N. Virginia
    Got it. You were talking about Tuning Adapter. Sorry I thought you were talking about MoCA adapter.

    I don't have TWC, but from the poster (quoted below from another poster in this thread), it seems like you need one, which goes where the Bolt is.

     
  20. tgoulart

    tgoulart New Member

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    Dec 21, 2013
    New England
    AHA! I completely missed this important (to me) fact. I don't know whay I assumed I would not need the Tuning Adapter with ethernet, but I did. :thumbsdown:

    So it sounds as though I can't avoid having one. Have to wonder what the Charter purchase of TWC will do, but since I am in Maine, I'm sure we are towards the bottom of any priority list when it comes to service upgrades.
     

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