Closed captioning issues on Tivo Premiere

Discussion in 'TiVo Premiere DVRs' started by slice1900, Jan 17, 2012.

  1. slice1900

    slice1900 Active Member

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    I'm hoping Margaret from Tivo or other Tivo employees read this so these issues get some visibility. I am not deaf but hearing impaired, that is I can hear but it requires a lot of concentration to listen to the TV which can get quite exhausting, and the captioning makes it much easier on me.

    First of all, I'm concerned about the reports that in the 20.2 software, closed captions no longer appear when using the 1xFF. I've found it extremely handy to use this at times when I'm watching a documentary or news show that is mostly narrative, or to get through slow parts of a movie. This is something I've grown accustomed to as it worked this way on my Tivo 2 for years until I upgraded to the Premiere two years ago. I hope this was removed by accident, and can be restored? Please!! :) I don't have 20.2 yet but this is making me dread the day I find it has been installed on my Tivo. If this is going to be fixed I am quite willing to help beta test the new code that gets this fix!

    I'm also curious why the closed captioning on the HD channels is often garbled when it is fine on the SD channels. By garbled, I mean letters and words are missing. Sometimes it isn't too bad and I can still make sense of it, occasionally it is so bad it is useless. Some have suggested this can be fixed by disabling digital captions, but while I do occasionally find this helps, it generally does not.

    Something else somewhat related I've noticed that is only loosely related to closed captioning, I only noticed it from watching programs at 1xFF and seeing how long it takes. Different channels appear to have different speeds that 1xFF means. On SD channels and most HD channels it appears to be about 3x normal speed. On certain HD channels (one example is BETHD) it is more like 2x. On my local PBS station, at least during programs I watch like Nova, it is more like 1.2x. This isn't really a problem, but I would have assumed that the meanings of the various fast forward speeds would be consistent between channels and wonder if this may indicate some problem with my Premiere's hardware?
     
  2. astrohip

    astrohip Well-Known Raconteur TCF Club

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    Plus a bazillion on this. I use captions on 1xFF ALL THE TIME. Will sorely miss them (I'm still on 14.x). Can't imagine what made them remove this feature.:confused:

    [Aside: I'm deaf, so I share your listening/captioning pains. But at 1xFF, the sound doesn't play, so it's not really a deafie issue. Just a captioning/feature issue.]


    As you mention, you should permanently disable digital captions, and stick to analog only. Digital captions just aren't reliable yet.

    If you have problems on HD and not SD, it is carrier related, not TiVo. It can either be the cable company, or the broadcaster themselves. Example: when I first started watching HD, the local FOX channel had terrible captions, but SD was perfect. In a series of emails with the station manager, then a broadcast technician, they realized they had some equipment in the HD chain that wasn't caption compatible. They fixed it within days. No one knew until I complained.

    Again: Disable digital captions. Always, not just when you have issues.

    This is a known issue (not really a bug, but close). It has something to do with the way each channel sends HD frame rates (or some such techie jargon). Some channels use a certain method which causes the TiVo to not properly 1xFF. For me, it's the local CBS affiliate (which of course, is 50% of what I watch). No other channel has ever done it for me (AFAIK). It is not Premiere related; my first S3 bought years ago still does this.

    There is no solution for this at this time.
     
  3. cherry ghost

    cherry ghost Well-Known Member

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  4. fhuband

    fhuband New Member

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    I don't see Margaret's reply... just the question. What did she say?
     
  5. cherry ghost

    cherry ghost Well-Known Member

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  6. moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

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    Mission...
    i.e. SOL
     
  7. crxssi

    crxssi Veteran TiVo User

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  8. crxssi

    crxssi Veteran TiVo User

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  9. mattack

    mattack Well-Known Member

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    If it was technically possible before, how can it not be technically possible now? That's ridiculous. They just don't want to do it.

    I think those of you who want this should call TiVo and complain.

    (I just tend to dub to my other recorder real time, with captions on, then watch on THAT recorder at 1.5x with sound. I really wish newer recorders would offer play-faster-than-realtime-with-sound[and/or-captions].. I actually use Save to VCR most of the time, but I know that was taken away on Premieres also. I use it mostly to avoid inadvertent remote keypresses from stopping the process.. If I'm recording it 'for keeps' then I'm more careful and/or just download it to computer nowadays.)
     
  10. crxssi

    crxssi Veteran TiVo User

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    +1 !!!!! I have suggested that several times. I would *LOVE* to be able to have fast play, perhaps 1.2 to 1.8 speed, in 0.1 increments, with tone-adjusted sound. My DVD player does it and it is a great feature for slow parts of movies that need to get moving.

    Might not be possible with the decoder ASICS on the TiVo, though. But then again...
     
  11. astrohip

    astrohip Well-Known Raconteur TCF Club

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    I call BS on this. What has changed to make this "technically impossible" all of a sudden? Sounds like in all their new coding for V20, they simply left this out and have no intention of adding it back.

    This was one of the distinguishing features to me, between cable/TiVo and DirecTV DVRs. I loved watching at 1xFF with captions. :thumbsdown::thumbsdown::mad:
     
  12. TiVoMargret

    TiVoMargret VP Product Dev & Chief Design Officer, TiVo

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    Yes, I'm sorry, with the Premiere update, Closed Captions no longer appear in the first speed of Fast Forward. I really have fought to get this restored, but my understanding is that it is a technical limitation. I'll try to get more details I can share.

    Regarding garbled captions. Turn OFF the "Digital Captions" -- they really are flaky. Leave the Analog Captions on, and things will get better. I believe in the 20.2 release we now prefer the Analog Captions, so users that don't make the change should still see an immediate improvement.

    I use Captions frequently, so know that I will always fight for a great caption experience.

    --Margret
     
  13. triftraf

    triftraf Member

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    I always thought the garbled CC was from HBO (as it was the only channel I noticed having problems with) - but turning Digital Captions to none - fixed the issue for me. Thanks for the info!!!
     
  14. bbrown9

    bbrown9 Active Member TCF Club

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    Kinda begs the question - If they are known to be flaky, why not disable digital captions by default?
     
  15. AZrob

    AZrob Member

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    Margret,

    I appreciate your efforts to try and get CC back. Although it is not supposed to be technically feasible to do this, I have to wonder if it would be possible if we were willing to give up some other new feature. I mean, I for one, would almost be willing to consider giving up two of the four tuners if it came to that, because my other Tivos can always double as extra tuners, especially with MRS enabled. This is a very important feature, and if there are possible technical tradeoffs, I for one would be interested in knowing.

    Otherwise, it's disheartening to see Tivo take this step backward. Especially when you consider all of the hearing-impaired users who be VERY affected. Has Tivo considered the impact on them?

    Rob from AZ
     
  16. crxssi

    crxssi Veteran TiVo User

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    I agree that it is unfortunate that the CC while FF is gone and probably not coming back. But you can't appeal for it based on "hearing-impaired users" because sound is not present, either, when you 1xFF... it never was. So non-hearing-impaired users were not missing any audio. ALL users who use CC are affected, hearing-impaired or not.
     
  17. astrohip

    astrohip Well-Known Raconteur TCF Club

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    Thank you for your (much politer) response to my post. :up:
     
  18. mattack

    mattack Well-Known Member

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  19. morac

    morac Cat God TCF Club

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    The only thing I can think of is that the new graphics for the playback bar are not compatible with the CC text so both can't be displayed at once. Of course there's an easy fix for that which is to only display the CC text when the bar isn't showing (if that's the problem).
     

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