Clock off in Roamio by 2 minutes

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by PSU_Sudzi, Dec 20, 2017.

  1. Dec 20, 2017 #1 of 367
    PSU_Sudzi

    PSU_Sudzi Well-Known Member

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    I remember seeing a post about this with Bolts but not Roamios that I can recall. Just noticed tonight, anyone else? On version 20.7.4.RC18.
     
  2. Dec 20, 2017 #2 of 367
    kpeters59

    kpeters59 Well-Known Member

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    Force another connection to TiVo?

    -KP
     
  3. Dec 20, 2017 #3 of 367
    NorthAlabama

    NorthAlabama tabasco rules

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    the time is synchronized with tivo's servers during connections, so this issue isn't isolated to any one model or software version - it effects everyone who connects to the server(s) that's time is off.

    the only solution is to force connections (like @kpeters59 suggested) until you connect to a server with accurate time, then report the issue, and wait until tivo adjusts the time on the affected server(s).

    if you report it to tivo, don't get roped into any frustrating troubleshooting nonsense other than forcing connections - reboots, repeating guided setup, etc. won't help.
     
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  4. Dec 20, 2017 #4 of 367
    PSU_Sudzi

    PSU_Sudzi Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the tips, I don’t think I ever noticed it happening before to me so I guess today I just hit a bad server at TiVo!
     
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  5. Dec 20, 2017 #5 of 367
    Razzer

    Razzer Cord cutter: 2011

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    Happened to me today on Roamio OTA.

    Sorry to say that a number of lengthy historical threads discuss customer frustration with this issue, spanning several years.
     
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  6. Dec 20, 2017 #6 of 367
    ClearToLand

    ClearToLand Old !*#$% Tinkerer!

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    IIRC, this was a popular / hot topic several months ago and @sfhub (if you want to SEARCH TCF) did quite a bit of diagnosis on NTP servers, various time differences, how far TiVo would allow one of their servers to get out-of-sync before correcting it, etc... Also, by going into the TiVo logs, @JoeKustra found the IPs that were suspected of providing the incorrect time.

    Just keep forcing connections until you hit a server with the CORRECT time. :oops: I always use S-P-S-9-S to display the time; besides telling me how far into the show I am and the TiVo clock's time, if it disappears I know that my TiVo unit rebooted.:cool:
     
  7. Dec 21, 2017 #7 of 367
    sfhub

    sfhub Well-Known Member

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    As of 11:58pm Eastern the 3 TiVo NTP servers (sjr1|sjr2|sjr3).tivo.com are within 1.5seconds of time.nist.gov

    If you connect now your time should be fine.
     
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  8. Dec 21, 2017 #8 of 367
    kdmorse

    kdmorse Well-Known Member TCF Club

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    They look fine now, but sjr1's been ruining up to 120second off today. sjr2's been, meh. sjr3's been ok. The following pattern has repeated a few times today...

    server 204.176.49.10, stratum 6, offset 118.620461, delay 0.11011
    server 204.176.49.11, stratum 6, offset 2.553283, delay 0.11194
    server 204.176.49.12, stratum 6, offset 0.677905, delay 0.10966
    server 204.176.49.10, stratum 6, offset 118.855079, delay 0.11604
    server 204.176.49.11, stratum 6, offset 2.684828, delay 0.10983
    server 204.176.49.12, stratum 6, offset 0.741389, delay 0.10977
    server 204.176.49.10, stratum 6, offset 119.060496, delay 0.10962
    server 204.176.49.11, stratum 6, offset 2.777870, delay 0.11188
    server 204.176.49.12, stratum 6, offset 0.770458, delay 0.11217
    server 204.176.49.10, stratum 6, offset 119.350921, delay 0.11082
    server 204.176.49.11, stratum 6, offset 2.929371, delay 0.11023
    server 204.176.49.12, stratum 6, offset 0.802268, delay 0.11133
    server 204.176.49.10, stratum 6, offset 119.580873, delay 0.11136
    server 204.176.49.11, stratum 6, offset 3.044121, delay 0.11066
    server 204.176.49.12, stratum 6, offset 0.834583, delay 0.10994
    server 204.176.49.10, stratum 6, offset 119.808143, delay 0.11174
    server 204.176.49.11, stratum 6, offset 3.169599, delay 0.11139
    server 204.176.49.12, stratum 6, offset 0.862006, delay 0.11023
    server 204.176.49.10, stratum 6, offset 120.083322, delay 0.11165
    server 204.176.49.11, stratum 6, offset 3.270567, delay 0.11308
    server 204.176.49.12, stratum 6, offset 0.907657, delay 0.11015
    server 204.176.49.10, stratum 6, offset 120.285744, delay 0.11139
    server 204.176.49.11, stratum 6, offset 3.438764, delay 0.11127
    server 204.176.49.12, stratum 16, offset 0.066923, delay 0.11032
    server 204.176.49.10, stratum 6, offset 120.487895, delay 0.11121
    server 204.176.49.11, stratum 6, offset 3.568935, delay 0.11328
    server 204.176.49.12, stratum 16, offset 0.078701, delay 0.11360
    server 204.176.49.10, stratum 16, offset -0.778881, delay 0.10959
    server 204.176.49.11, stratum 6, offset 3.734676, delay 0.11063
    server 204.176.49.12, stratum 16, offset 0.107089, delay 0.11049
     
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  9. Dec 21, 2017 #9 of 367
    velouria28

    velouria28 Member

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    It's happened twice to one of my two premieres this week. A forced connection fixed it both times and thankfully I noticed it before it screwed up any recordings.
     
  10. Dec 21, 2017 #10 of 367
    JoeKustra

    JoeKustra in the other Alabama TCF Club

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    For the first time this morning's update put my Roamio 30 seconds fast. Probably unrelated: all tuners have their "Time since Tune Start" reset. The box did not use Standby or do a restart.
     
  11. Dec 21, 2017 #11 of 367
    chiguy50

    chiguy50 U.S. Army (ret.)

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    Ditto here.

    The user-enabled recording-marker/real-time clock is a feature I value and one of the reasons I am in no hurry to make the move to Hydra, where it is currently unavailable.
     
  12. Dec 21, 2017 #12 of 367
    sfhub

    sfhub Well-Known Member

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    sjr1 is now 1:32 fast. It sounds like what we suspected last time was correct and they didn't really fix the root cause of the drift, just masked it.

    To summarize what we found before, all 3 NTP servers at TiVo sjr1|sjr2|sjr3.tivo.com drift. Usually one of them drifts quite a bit. This is mitigated by them resyncing with whatever source they use relatively frequently. Sometimes the servers will miss a few resyncs but normally they aren't off by more than 15-20 seconds. Once in a while they end up missing a lot of resyncs and they can be off by minutes. That looks like it may be happening again now.

    Right now sjr1.tivo.com seems like the culprit. You can tell if there is a chance you'll get the wrong time by syncing your PC with time.nist.gov then running (the RefID of unknown for sjr1.tivo.com might be indicative of a sync problem with its source)

    Code:
    C:\>w32tm /monitor /computers:sjr1.tivo.com,sjr2.tivo.com,sjr3.tivo.com
    
    sjr1.tivo.com[204.176.49.10:123]:
        ICMP: 20ms delay
        NTP: +94.2005371s offset from local clock
            RefID: (unknown) [0x00017F7F]
            Stratum: 6
    sjr2.tivo.com[204.176.49.11:123]:
        ICMP: 22ms delay
        NTP: +2.8702323s offset from local clock
            RefID: time3.apple.com [17.254.0.31]
            Stratum: 6
    sjr3.tivo.com[204.176.49.12:123]:
        ICMP: 22ms delay
        NTP: +1.5761571s offset from local clock
            RefID: clock.isc.org [204.152.184.72]
            Stratum: 6
    
    If sjr1 is off by a lot, there is probably 1 in 3 chance you'll get the wrong time. If all three are just a few seconds off, you can be assured you'll get usable time right away.

    IMO this is probably what is going on:
    1) all three TiVo NTP servers drift more than would be expected. One of them usually drifts a lot. Usually they drift fast.
    2) TiVo compensates for this by syncing relatively frequently
    3) every once in a while one or more of the time sources TiVo syncs with stops responding, and then we are exposed to the full drift of the TiVo NTP server, because many resyncs are missed
    4) usually it is one server that is off, so when this happens you have 1 in 3 chance of getting time that is fast, so it will seem somewhat inconsistent with some people saying their time is fine but others saying their time is off by minutes.

    We have theorized that one reason the TiVo NTP servers might be drifting a lot is they could be running in VMs or some sort of virtual hosting environment.

    TiVo should really fix the drift problem on their NTP servers and they should monitor all 3 to see if they are getting out of sync with each other and if so alert some administrator. Lots of us depend on TiVo NTP servers to get our recordings started at the right time.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2017
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  13. Dec 21, 2017 #13 of 367
    PSU_Sudzi

    PSU_Sudzi Well-Known Member

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    After syncing back correctly last night mine is back off by 2 minutes again.
     
  14. Dec 21, 2017 #14 of 367
    slowbiscuit

    slowbiscuit FUBAR

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    Can you PM Tivo_Ted with this info? He's apparently the only one here that can get anything done at Rivo when we all know that the issue is on their end.
     
  15. Dec 21, 2017 #15 of 367
    GBL

    GBL covert opiniative

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    Looks like it's fixed now!
     
  16. Dec 23, 2017 #16 of 367
    NorthAlabama

    NorthAlabama tabasco rules

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    apparently the fix was short lived, i got hit tonight, just before prime time, all recordings started 2 minutes early, which means i've missed the end of my all prime time shows.

    since there is no ffwding allowed with vod, i guess i'll just have to miss out, which stinks.
     
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  17. Dec 23, 2017 #17 of 367
    kdmorse

    kdmorse Well-Known Member TCF Club

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    There was no fix. The time server wanders back and forth, and sometimes it's right for a while. But until it is fixed, it will always go a wandering through time.

    Let me be blunt. Their NTP server blows goats. It is misconfigured, unreliable, horribly architected, and the few times a day that it's accurate in no way excuses it's regular temporal wanderlust. It sucks... And the NTP admin should hang himself in shame.

    (In fairness, I myself am a NTP NAZI from hell. Your clocks will be synced and correct, perfectly, and always! Failure to comply will result in merciless mocking, and the eventual extermination of your system. Or I may come at you from the other angle, for I am also the DNS NAZI. )

    Since December 18, NTP server .10 and been off by over 10 seconds, for 4859 minutes (80 hours). That's an astoundingly bad record.

    For the bored: Logfile attached...
     

    Attached Files:

  18. Dec 23, 2017 #18 of 367
    samccfl99

    samccfl99 I Am Sometimes Vocal

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    I have been away from TCF for a bit. I got home Wed night and saw it was ahead. I went to connect and it showed my last connection was at 2:09 pm. It has been ok since and actually it is about 3 seconds ahead currently. Best I ever seen it. Got home before it killed the Survivor Finale next season preview...LOL.

    THEY ARE COMPLETE IDIOTS SOMETIMES...
     
  19. Dec 23, 2017 #19 of 367
    m.s

    m.s Active Member

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    Are sjr[1-3].tivo.com required for other than ntp? i.e. can I just use my dns server to send those to a real ntp server without screwing up other TiVo connections?
     
  20. Dec 23, 2017 #20 of 367
    sfhub

    sfhub Well-Known Member

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    In my packet traces I didn't see them used for anything else. I didn't examine beyond the connection to the mothership (ie I didn't examine over several days.) TiVo does have an alternate way of setting time other than using those NTP servers, but that pathway hasn't been an issue.
     

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