I'm located in Dayton OH and two of our stations just made the switch to their new post "channel repack" frequency. There was almost no warning. So of course TiVo stopped receiving or recording those stations including sub-channels. TiVo's guide data is populating the old frequency channel. A rescan finds the new channel but without guide data. I haven't contacted TiVo yet but surely they knew this was coming? Virtually all of our local stations are moving so this problem is going to repeat itself.
If this is how the repack transition is going to go, all of us OTA TiVo folks are in for a rocky ride!
There are other weird things happening from the repack as well but I'm not going to go into that here.
Well, OK, sometimes it takes 2 or 3 attempts. (I'm thinking when TiVo updates its software and earlier features get broken . . . and then it takes TiVo months and 2 or sometimes 3 attempts to fix them).
I'll also give Tivo some credit too as 9 days ago one of our low powered stations decided instead of moving to their new channel (they were on 43 moving supposedly to 20) they dropped all the 3ABN stations they had on 33 (which they also own) and moved everything from 43 to 33. Only took Tivo 5 days to switch the programming on 33 to the **mostly** correct lineup (They dropped QVC & QVC+ when they moved and replaced with CBN News and 3ABN. Those still show QVC & QVC+).
Wow, looks like I am going to have to nurse the recordings for WDBD, Jackson, MS FOX 40, after they flip from actual channel 40 to 14. We also have WLOO My35 flipping from actual 41 to 36 the same morning, 11/30/2018. I am figuring that it will take up to roughly two weeks afterwards for Rovi to update the actual frequencies. Once this flip is done, though, the Jackson, MS DMA is good going forward (until another subchannel is added on one of the existing stations).
Wow, looks like I am going to have to nurse the recordings for WDBD, Jackson, MS FOX 40, after they flip from actual channel 40 to 14. We also have WLOO My35 flipping from actual 41 to 36 the same morning, 11/30/2018. I am figuring that it will take up to roughly two weeks afterwards for Rovi to update the actual frequencies. Once this flip is done, though, the Jackson, MS DMA is good going forward (until another subchannel is added on one of the existing stations).
The repack happened this morning in Jackson, MS. I have reported it to TiVo, will see how long it takes to get the actual channels updated in the TiVo database.
Well, TiVo did update the actual frequency for WLOO from 41 to 36 and WDBD from 40 to 14 on 12/6, 6 days after the change. Not a bad turnaround. Unfortunately, WDBD (FOX40) lost signal strength from a Bolt levelized 72 down to 60 in the move. Engineer says the short version is that the new configuration is completed and this is what to expect. They enabled vertical polarization and said that the changes were supposed to provide greater coverage to the market.
Unfortunately, WDBD (FOX40) lost signal strength from a Bolt levelized 72 down to 60 in the move. Engineer says the short version is that the new configuration is completed and this is what to expect. They enabled vertical polarization and said that the changes were supposed to provide greater coverage to the market.
Now that phase 2 is here, has TiVo gotten their act together yet? I've got several channels moving on April 12, and I wonder if TiVo is capable of updating them promptly on schedule without my assistance?
I had to report via the Tivo form that ION digital channel 30-1's frequency had changed in Los Angeles on December 20th 2018. Long ago Tivo added a second channel 30-1 and after the change it tuned in but did Not have listings. After I reported it, instead of adding the listings to the 2nd channel, Tivo changed the frequency of the first. Works fine now.
I had thought that only 3 of my Favorite channels which change frequencies, but there seem to be more ahead.
It should not be a big job for someone to monitor the frequency changes. Just have schedule and check it each day to make sure Tivo has made the changes necessary. Quality assurance should not take more than a few minutes a day. Heck computerize it. A simple query of their database looking for problems would take milliseconds a day.
I take it that means no. Why is TiVo still unable/unwilling to keep up with the FCC repack schedule and make the necessary updates at the right times? What can/should I do to help TiVo make the correct updates on the day my stations move? Does TiVo really want all of their OTA customers to swamp support on repack day?
Should I hope for the best and do nothing until after it breaks? Should I send TiVo the repack details ahead of time? What have others done, and how long were your stations broken?
One problem may be that just because it's on the schedule -- doesn't mean it may happen. 2 stations in my DMA (I can't receive them OTA, but my parents can about 60 miles south of me) were scheduled for Phase 1. Literally 2 days to go before the end of Phase 1, they changed their schedule to Phase 2 and Phase 3, respectively. Given the winter we've had - I would bet a Gajillion dollars that the station that moved to Phase 2 will have to change to Phase 3 before the end of Phase 2 happens. Stations are given a to-do list when they move frequency -- and two of the items on the list are to notify both your PSIP data provider as well as TV schedule providers (along with contact info of the largest providers). It may be a combination of things happening -- with either stations not doing their due diligence notifying (especially since their virtual channel remains unchanged) and/or those notifications not being handled in a timely manner once received.
One problem may be that just because it's on the schedule -- doesn't mean it may happen. 2 stations in my DMA (I can't receive them OTA, but my parents can about 60 miles south of me) were scheduled for Phase 1. Literally 2 days to go before the end of Phase 1, they changed their schedule to Phase 2 and Phase 3, respectively. Given the winter we've had - I would bet a Gajillion dollars that the station that moved to Phase 2 will have to change to Phase 3 before the end of Phase 2 happens.
And ... I'm now a Gajillion dollars richer ... if only I would have made that bet.
Literally 2 days before the station I mentioned was scheduled to change frequencies, they filed a petition with the FCC to now move to Phase 3. Just another example of how maddening this can be for providers. Despite what it may be scheduled for ... until a station actually does it and notifies providers it has done so, there is no way to assume it actually happened.
I can't follow that TV Query site. I just don't know what i'm looking at. Anyone able to discern what/when/if any changes are going to be in the LA area? I know ION changed in December (as previously stated).
Antennaweb.org I find easier to follow if you put in your street address. There is an indicator for which channels are part of a repack and what phase.
Same here -- the 2 stations I know for a fact are moving (after changing their schedule out of Phase 1) aren't listed as being repacked on Antennaweb either.
You could try TVAnswers.org (if looking up FCC documents ain't your thang).
It's translator listings are hardly accurate (most of the ones in my area moved frequencies long ago) - but the major stations seems to be OK
I'm wondering why other devices seem to be able to keep up with the changes. Did I read that TiVo uses a different method for identifying channels and that means they have to make manual guide changes when channels change frequency?
TV's, and probably a lot of other devices, use PSIP, digital info inserted by the station mapping the physical channel they broadcast on to the appropriate virtual channels and sub-channels.
I.E., station I work at is KUTV 2, they broadcast on UHF channel 36, but want viewers to know they are still Channel 2, so PSIP tells the tuners that tune to ch36 that they are watching KUTV2, or KUTV2-2, the subchannel.
TiVo tuners ignore all this and base the channel mapping on a database they provide.
And of course it takes time to update the database when channels change frequency.
And, since the database is maintained by humans, they can royally screw things up as well.
Forgot to mention, when a channel changes frequency, all the PSIP based tuners need to due is rescan the channels, quick and easy.
TiVo users can do the same, but then they just end up with tuneable channels, but no information as to what channel is broadcasting on the new frequency, not until TiVo updates their database.
2 stations in Los Angeles have started advertising "rescan day".
KTLA is moving on March 18, 2019. KCBS is moving to KTLA's old frequency on April 12, 2019. The question still remains why doesn't KTLA keep its frequency and just KCBS move.
It usually has to do with interference. Like if 2 stations had some interference because both were on channel 36 if one moved to a new station then that other station moves too as the FCC didnt want to create new interference issues. This happened big time on the East Coast where one station as example took the money to move from UHF to VHF Hi. There is a lot of shuffling done over there
But I cant really see any reason why KTLA has to move. But the FCC did extensive testing to figure out what station can go where and if stations were being forced to move the FCC footed the bill for the equipment.
edit....it has to do with KNBC apparently. You can have adjacent RF stations be active (31,32,33,etc) as long as the towers are within close proximity and dont cause interference. Over at avs Trip (who runs rabbitears.info and works for the FCC) explained it
The TVStudy software that I work on for the FCC is used to determine whether stations can co-exist or not. In the case of KCBS/KTLA, the issue was that KCBS (placed on 35) could not be adjacent to KNBC (on 36), while KTLA (if moved from 31 to 35) could and KCBS could fit on 31. I don't know the specific location that made it unacceptable, but that calculated interference would have been the cause.
I just had to report a channel in my area that has changed its broadcast frequency from 51 to 20. It would certainly help if the form to report guide issues had an option for this type of problem. The form is mostly set up for cable customers. I filled in the line with something like "channel 65-1 labeled KTFN actually shows nothing". The only way to explain that the real UHF frequency has changed is in the comments box. Most casual OTA viewers do not even understand the difference between virtual and actual broadcast channels.
I also added that most of the channel assignments for Juarez, Mexico are wrong. About a year ago most Mexican stations changed their virtual channel assignment so that all the affiliates of the same network across the country show on the same virtual channel. It would be like every CBS station in the US showing as 2-1, all NBC on 4-1, etc. Not a bad idea actually. In addition to that Mexican stations along the border are shifting to actual frequencies below 37 to accommodate our changes. I could understand if Tivo simply did not support Mexican OTA reception but if it is going to be in the channel line-up it should not all be useless.
Tivo's page initially misspells tvanswers.org, strike one, (though the link works). But tvanswers doe Not have the exact day KTLA will change, strike two.
And as far as I know that rescanning with Tivo will add a channel but all the listings will say To Be Announced so nothing will be recorded, strike three.
Yes. Unless Tivo is right on top of it (which they haven't been in the past) the guide data will be missing.
As an example, KTLA is changing frequencies next week. So if you have a Season Pass for any shows on KTLA, they won't record if the guide data is missing. They won't record until Tivo makes the change on their end. Until they do, the Tivo will still recognize the old frequency for KTLA as being the official channel, and will attempt to record your programs from that defunct channel (which will likely be blank).
This has happened quite often in the past.
However, in the past, stations have changed frequencies for personal reasons. This time, it's part of a national reorganization, and it's being planned in advance.
And Tivo knows about it.
Therefore, I am cautiously hopeful that this time Tivo will be on top of these changes, and that the guide data will be there when I rescan.
And then when I rescan a month later for the next channel. And again. And again. And again...
I think......all is well for tomorrow's (March 18th) repack of KTLA, shows will be recorded without user intervention.
KTLA is broadcasting on BOTH the Old RF and the New RF. Evidently, Tivo knew that and fixed things. But I didn't. I did a rescan and then checked the Roamios diagnostics.
Old RF 31 is 575000 KHz old per FCC and wiki TiVo says To Be Announced
New RF 35 is 599000 KHz new per FCC and wiki TiVo has the schedule
Thanks for pointing KDOC 56-1 out. I've only been recording "The Listener", one of my all time favorite shows each Monday at 3am, though they are showing only every other episode.
KDOC is moving from RF 31 to RF 12. March 18, 2019 11am.
As of 5am, RF12 (number pad 12, select) is showing a Test Transmission. Tivo has the old station schedule, will need to complain about that, hope they can fix it by next Monday.
I wonder if RF12 will interfere with RF11 Fox. There was a station at RF12 but maybe KDOC will boost the power and cause interference.
RF11 KTTV FOX this morning is down to signal strength of 42-50. Generally reception here gets better during prime time, so it might be okay. Or Not.
KDOC has changed frequencies, took about 20 minutes after the deadline to get my TV and Roamio back into shape, sort of. The Tivo's listing for the new frequency "To be announced", "Title not available" . Number pad 12, select no longer gets to a tunable channel.
Yeah, I can't believe Tivo knew about the switch, but doesn't have their sh*t together. Meanwhile, what I've done for my season passes on ME-TV (KDOC-3) is switch them to 54-1 KAZA. I live in Fullerton, and receive both. Not sure if you guys do as well. Not sure if KAZA did the switch recently or not, but there are 2 "channels" for each KAZA channel. My Tivo has the correct guide data for the ones that are sending a signal.
Thanks for the heads up. 54-1 KAZA is ME-TV, old shows, in HD, 720p. Some of the them look really good, nice picture quality though unfortunately Matlock still looks bad.
There are some things that we're remastered at some point, watch Columbo anywhere it runs it, looks good. Tried to watch 'The Night Stalker' off of ME-TV once and it looked the broadcast master that was an old as the show itself. In the age of small 4x3 TVs people never realized how horrible some of these shows looked even up through the 80's.
Wish me luck, I have two stations changing frequency for sure on Thursday 6/20, (WBSF & WEYI) and one changing for sure on Friday 6/21 (WNEM). There's a third one (WAQP) that's also supposed to change by Friday 6/21 deadline for this phase, but they just won't give a date to anybody.
Not a single one ran any sort of crawl on the tv warning people about this! They did post a little blurb on their websites though.
One of my stations was supposed to change by the phase 2 deadline, and also wouldn't give any date or information. The deadline came and went, and they didn't change. I couldn't find any information anywhere about what was going on, until I finally searched the actual FCC database and found that the station had requested to be rescheduled for phase 3. So, the phase 3 deadline is almost here, and once again there is no information to be had anywhere, and they still haven't changed.
Also, none of my stations gave much warning either. Those that did, mostly emphasized that cable/satellite viewers didn't need to do anything to continue enjoying the fine programming that you depend on blah blah blah, with a tiny footnote oh by the way if you use an antenna you need to rescan your tv but we can't help you with that. It's like they are doing the minimum legal requirement, but actually couldn't care less whether they have OTA viewers or not.
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