Channel repack has begun, and it's not good!

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by TeamPace, Jul 2, 2018.

  1. MikeBear

    MikeBear Letting my mind wander, luring it back with candy.

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    In my case, it appears to mean that BOTH WNEM and WEYI's guide data was fixed in around 24~ hours from my submission of the lineup change. I had to do a forced service connection each time, but those ones are back with full guide data. 24 hours is not bad at all, IMO. I did several service connections over time, but they didn't work to bring back data until about 24 hours went by. Then the last one ran finally loaded it.
     
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  2. JohnS-MI

    JohnS-MI Active Member

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    Thanks. That prompted me to force a connection again. Mine is also fixed, about 32 hours.
     
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  3. MikeBear

    MikeBear Letting my mind wander, luring it back with candy.

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    I see my Lineup Change for WBSF-46 now says "Resolution Sent". So I assume that means we will hopefully have guide data by tomorrow noon, if not sooner.
     
  4. suzannesstud

    suzannesstud Member

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    I wish TiVo would give us the ability to manually input a local channel when needed or be able to change the variables of a channel when needed. That would help with repack issues because then we could just go in and change the RF frequency, display channel, and/or any other changed information to the new information where the channel would then come back in again with guide data still intact, and when TiVo updates it on their end, everything would then be finalized.

    Also when there are new stations or new subchannels of existing stations, we would be able to watch them in the meantime, if we could input them manually, until TiVo updates the lineup to include the new channels with guide data. RabbitEars.info has all of the necessary information for every local channel out there to identify to the TiVo how to receive them like RF frequency, display channel, call sign, network, and a whole bunch of other technical information.

    I know a lineup report would still be needed to ensure a proper update, but this would, at least, give us a way to watch the channels until guide data can be added plus we could still record using the manual recording option, if needed, by just having the date, time, and duration of the program to record.

    That would really help us and TiVo get through the repack a lot easier where we could still watch all our channels even if TiVo doesn’t get every channel updated by it’s frequency change date. The worst that would happen, in that case, is we might have a few channels where guide data might take a few days to be corrected, but we’d still be able to watch and manually record from them regardless.
     
  5. Lurker1

    Lurker1 Well-Known Member

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    You can do this now by scanning for new channels, and then adding the channels that are found. They will have no guide data, but you can watch them and manually record them like you said. When TiVo finally updates the guide, you may have to go back in and remove the scanned channels.
     
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  6. Charles R

    Charles R Well-Known Member

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    It's been too long and I can't remember if it was both (WMC & DVBLink) but at least one of them allowed you to "point" the guide data from one channel to another. They had guide data for the low power and not the regular power CBS. So I simply "told" it to use the low power's guide data for the regular power channel.
     
  7. Dschelsea82

    Dschelsea82 New Member

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    I filed for 2 channels to be fixed using the site
    Report a Lineup Issue
    The 1st fix took 4 days and the 2nd took 1hr.
    Im happy with the results.
     
    MikeBear likes this.
  8. suzannesstud

    suzannesstud Member

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    You can do this by rescanning, but not all of the ones that change frequencies will recognize right away after the change. It can take awhile before a rescan will actually register the station with all it’s related subchannels on it’s new frequency so if I was able to update the frequencies manually then I would be able to get around this issue and still get the channels to come in plus the guide data would still work because it is still tied to the same entry in the channel list. After TiVo updates the information on their side, I could then swap off the old channel entry to the new one, if a new one is created by the update, which would then have me on TiVo’s official guide supported channel entry for that channel. In that instance, no guide data would be lost, and there would be an immediate fix to hold over until TiVo gets their side updated which would keep them from having channels that go into a sort of limbo state for a bit after the repack change.

    There is one such station, here in Lexington, right now. 27 WKYT CBS moved from RF 36 to RF 21 on Friday, and TiVo has not updated it yet so I did several rescans up to today. It recognized 27-3 each time, which is their 24 hour doppler radar sweep, but not 27-1 CBS and 27-2 The CW Lexington. All three have full signal when hooked up to just a regular TV with a signal meter, but the rescan on TiVo isn’t picking up the first two of the three. If I was able to update the RF frequency from 36 to 21 manually, I would be able to fix it in the interim until TiVo gets it updated where I can then swap channel entries if needed.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2019
  9. just4tivo

    just4tivo Active Member

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    A local station just executed a frequency change for a channel and 3 sub channels.
    They've been running a crawler for about a month advising viewers of the change.

    I called their engineering department three times and asked them to make sure they advised TiVo/Rovi of the impending change. The engineer said they had advised TiVo and would again.

    The change day came and sure enough the channel signals disappeared from the stations listed in the guide.
    Did a channel scan and the moved channels were not to be found.

    After I ran "channel verification" the moved channels appeared and could be viewed live but, of course, the guide showed "to be announced" for all four of the moved channels.

    Called TiVo and spoke to as "lineup specialist" who said they would put in a report.

    So even when broadcasters advise TiVo/Rovi in advance that channels will be moved TiVo/Rovi chooses to wait
    and correct the guide after we ***** rather that give us a seamless transition.

    Thanks to TiVo/Rovi for making watching TV far more difficult than it has to be.
     
  10. Mr Tony

    Mr Tony formerly known as "unclehonkey"

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    I don't blame Tivo for this as stations have a time frame of almost 2 months to move during the repack phase they are in....and even then they may not. One of my "locals" KSTC Minneapolis was suppose to move by June 21st and even had scrolls on the screen to rescan at noon on 6/21 (dated 6/5). Then on June 15th they filed a STA with the FCC asking to be bumped to phase 4 due to the tower guys having "various delays at prior projects"

    How is Tivo supposed to know when stations move?
    as someone who was in customer service for many years people will say anything to get that customer off the phone....even lying ;)

    Its a no win situation for Tivo. They've moved stations early (KSTC they moved 7 months early incorrectly) which required a lineup change. And they've moved them after. When a station moves just submit a lineup change at tivo.com/lineup
     
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  11. just4tivo

    just4tivo Active Member

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    In this instance the glass is FULL... I know the head engineer and he has ALWAYS done EXACTLY what he said he will do in the past.

    Instead of blaming an individual who does his job and seeing that his viewers can view his channels you might direct your cynicism toward TiVo/Rovi who prove constantly that their customers exist for the convenience of the company instead of the other way around.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2019
  12. MikeBear

    MikeBear Letting my mind wander, luring it back with candy.

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    Mid-Michigan
    I had four stations move total. Two tried the day before their final phase day (last week Thursday) Only one of those was successful the first try (WEYI), the other (WBSF) failed due to whatever (bad transmission line to antenna), and then changed on the FINAL phase day, last Friday. They still don't have the proper transmission line, so are at 1/2 power and filed a STA to be allowed to replace the line with the proper one, and then jack their signal back up.

    Of the last two moving, one (WNEM) successfully changed sometime early morning of the last day, last Friday apparently with no issues. The other one (WAQP) waited until almost 12 midnight, last second, of the last day, and went DARK. It's still dark, or running at such low power I can't find anybody that can still pick them up. Turns out their new RF36 antenna was constructed defective and they didn't know before they tried switching. They have now entered a STA with the FCC, and who knows when they'll actually go live again after replacement/repairs.
     
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  13. suzannesstud

    suzannesstud Member

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    What did you run to do “channel verification” that made them appear, if it is other than a rescan?

    It sounds like something I haven’t done yet.
     
  14. just4tivo

    just4tivo Active Member

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    I'm NOT running Hydra...

    TiVo button... settings... channel settings... antenna channel scan... verify antenna channels

    Don't know why it worked but it did. Maybe because the "moved channels" had the same numbers and ID only the frequency was changed?
     
  15. Mr Tony

    Mr Tony formerly known as "unclehonkey"

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    I bet most people had no idea (or wouldn't care) that the station changed frequencies because they are not on OTA so they turned on their TV today and saw the channel as normal. Most who use OTA just rescanned their converter box or TV.
    How many people in your market do you think use a Tivo for OTA?

    I'm just saying there is a lot of variations in when channels move. Even when they put ads and scrolls saying "scan at ______" and it doesnt go as planned? Its just TV. Submit a lineup change and in a day or so it will be fixed.

    As someone who uses both Tivo and the cable companies DVR (due to the cable company being an IPTV provider I HAVE to use their receivers) if that was the worst thing that happened (having no guide info for a couple days on a channel) I'd be happy. But its just TV and in todays day and age if I miss a program I'm sure its either repeated or on the internet somewhere for viewing :)
    (the reason I have cable is cable and internet is included in rent at the apartment and the market I live in has only 2 TV stations in it)
     
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  16. just4tivo

    just4tivo Active Member

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    One or thousands the problem is real whether it applies to you or not. We all butter our own bread.
    No need to throw my bread in the trash.

    I posted regarding a specific situation I monitored from beginning to end NOT a generality.

    The broadcaster notified TiVo/Rovi on three occasions and executed the frequency change exactly on time. What more can the broadcaster do?

    I never paid the OTA broadcaster for their services or programming but I did pay TiVo for their services and they failed to reflect the frequency change in the guide on time when notified three times in advance... and it's been two days.
     
  17. suzannesstud

    suzannesstud Member

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    I don’t have the verify antenna channels option. I’m using a Premier Series4 with the HD menus UI, and I have settings... channels... channel scan... scan for channels or delete previously scanned channels. No other options exist. Maybe my model doesn’t have that option. I’m also on 20.7.4 software.
     
  18. Mr Tony

    Mr Tony formerly known as "unclehonkey"

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    Mankato, MN
    Its happened to me already a few times and I just submit a lineup change and usually in a couple of business days its fixed.
    -when Tivo decided to move KSTC from RF45 to RF30 7 months early even though as of today they are still on RF45
    -when analog translator (yes Minnesota still has them) upgraded to digital. Before Rovi took over I was able to have a guide info on said channel on my TivoHD but when Rovi took over it was gone. When they flash cut I could get them again and on both Tivo's (Roamio and TivoHD)
    -the translator farm about 30 miles west of where I live now moved stations due to the repack AND in some cases moved programming from one translator station to another due to some stations having to drop power. That one took about a week and a few lineup changes but for the most part its fixed.
    -PLENTY of programming changes submitted especially at the beginning of the new syndicated seasons

    Is it a hassle? yup
    Does life go on? yup because its just TV

    I don't know....follow up with them?
    If they (the station) knew for sure they were moving on X date why not create a lineup change a day or two before the move?

    I feel I have got my moneys worth from Tivo especially when I had cable and saved on equipment fees and with Comcast the "HD Enable Fee" of $10 a month. Just take a breath and wait a day or so and I'm sure it will be fixed. With that being the last possible day for stations in Phase 3 to move (6/21) I'm sure Tivo got alot of lineup changes.
     
  19. just4tivo

    just4tivo Active Member

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    The broadcaster notified TiVo/Rovi THREE TIMES over a 30 day period of the impending frequency change and the EXACT date it would happen. I spoke to the engineer that contacted TiVo/Rovi.

    There is no more that the broadcaster can do. The broadcaster can not change the TiVo/Rovi guide info.

    TiVo/Rovi chose to wait till users complained and resolve the guide problem as a "lineup report".

    A competent company who valued their customers would have changed the guide info on the date the broadcaster specified or at least changed the guide info in a timely manner when users began to report lineup problems instead of parroting the company line... lineup problems will be resolved with 14 days.

    Whether OTA only or cable TiVo owners pay for service.
     
  20. JohnS-MI

    JohnS-MI Active Member

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    I would also like to see them be proactive and know a station is changing frequency. However, I have submitted two reports; the first was handled in 3 working days, the second in 1, so they might only promise 14 days, but it isn't that bad.
     

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