Channel Changing Pioneer 810H - Software 7.2.0

Discussion in 'DVD TiVo Units (Archive)' started by natrlhy, Aug 14, 2005.

  1. natrlhy

    natrlhy New Member

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    Dec 28, 2004

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    After going through the guided setup (I followed the instructions after seeing a message on my 810H that a channel lineup change required an update.) my Pioneer 810H unit can no longer change the channels on my Direct TV satellite unit.

    I have had my 810H since Dec. 04 and have been using it fine with the Serial cable connection. Until I update the 810H (software version now says 7.2.0-tak-01-2-275.

    I'm wondering if anyone else has this new version and if they are seeing the same problems. I went through the steps of powering off the Direct TV box and this did not fix the issue.

    Could anyone help me out in discovering what to do next? None of my shows are recording as a result of this new software version. :eek:

    UPDATE:

    After speaking with someone from Tivo beta support, they informed me that they are slowly rolling out the 7.2 software to users and I was one of them. I'm not a beta tester however.

    I have a DirecTV HTL-HD receiver. Apparently, DirecTV has change the protocols they use to send data over the serial connection. With the new Tivo 7.2 software, Tivo is using this new or change protocol as well. This makes some sense, however it's frustrating since I know I can't be the only person out there with a Pioneer 810S-H and a DirecTV HTL-HD satellite receiver. Now I just need to yell at DirecTV and Tivo to see if they can make any changes before Tivo fully releases the 7.2 software.

    I was also able to get channel changing to work after messing with the IR cable. I had to stick it pretty far away from the IR sensor on the DirecTV HTL-HD receiver.
     
  2. HDTiVo

    HDTiVo Not so Senior Member

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    Nov 27, 2002
  3. Msbob

    Msbob New Member

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    May 26, 2005
    My understanding is that Tivo is changing the serial connections to fix the problems that Direct TV D10 users have been having (not being able to change channels via serial anymore) See this thread: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=241518&page=9&pp=30

    I'm one that is in both camps however. I have 3 boxes affected by the DTV serial change and my ONLY working reciever right now is a HTL-HD connected to a Pioneer. I would sure hate to see my other tivos fixed but my last one crippled. Is it possible Tivo could add a third serial option for old and new type DTV? That way they can fix the problem without ruining all the working boxes that are out there.
     
  4. steve841

    steve841 New Member

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    Mar 6, 2005
    Add me to the list...

    810H with 7.2 with a Sony SAT HD 300 and no more serial :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown:

    I guess the parting of ways with Dtv is gonna cost the consumer as usual.

    Thanks DTV, THANKS TIVO.
     
  5. ericthebikeman

    ericthebikeman New Member

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    Jan 31, 2004

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    I was just upgraded to 7.2 last night and it actually fixed my channel changing problem with my D10. I went through the channel changing setup so I don't know it that had something to do with it.
     
  6. steve841

    steve841 New Member

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    Mar 6, 2005
    My point...as I am sure everyone else would agree...one thing, just one thing TIVO needs to remember...

    "backward compatability"
     
  7. csd

    csd New Member

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    Sep 10, 2005
    Cincinnati
    Newbie here, I am glad to see that it is not just me having this problem. I have a HughesHTL-HD receiver and a Pioneer DVR-810H-S TIVO. Any thoughts on when they will fix the problem? It happened once before about two months ago, but it was fixed in a matter of days.


    Any info would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks!
     
  8. TiVoPony

    TiVoPony New Member

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    May 11, 2002
    Alviso,...
    DIRECTV has changed the serial control protocol used in their systems. As a result, we've had to change the protocol used by our recorders to control their satellite receivers. Unfortunately there are three HD satellite boxes don't speak the new protocol correctly.

    It's a bit more complicated than that, so stick with me for a moment. You're probably wondering how could all of this be if you didn't have any problems until your TiVo software upgraded. Here's how:

    All DIRECTV satellite receivers have always been bilingual up until today - there have been two protocols to talk to these boxes and change channels via the serial cable. Think of the two protocols as English and Spanish. All DIRECTV receivers spoke both. Here at TiVo we chose to use English to speak to their boxes, and it's been working great for years.

    This summer DIRECTV decided that none of their boxes should speak English anymore, and they began the process of removing English from their satellite receivers. That's why the standard def D10 receivers began losing serial control - DIRECTV was updating the software in those boxes and leaving Spanish as the only option.

    As a result, we had to learn to speak Spanish. Not fun for us, as English was working fine, but ok, they're changing, so we learned.

    Unfortunately it turns out that three of DIRECTV's HD satellite receivers don't speak Spanish very well at all. Nobody at DIRECTV apparently knew this, and we certainly didn't know it either - remember, we only just learned to speak Spanish.

    When you received the new TiVo 7.2 software, it only supported Spanish. We had to do that, as DIRECTV is systematically removing English from everyone's vocabulary. If we hadn't, we would have had a repeat of the D10 issue earlier this summer (when DIRECTV starts updating these three HD models).

    Supporting both protocols could not be put in place by the time we became aware of the issue. It may be possible in the next release, but we also know that DIRECTV is aware of the problem with their HD boxes...they could correct their boxes before our next software release.

    For now these three HD boxes can only be controlled via IR.

    Even though I know that doesn't change the end result, I hope it helps explain what has happened.

    Cheers,
    Bob Pony
     
  9. steve841

    steve841 New Member

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    Mar 6, 2005
    Bob,

    Thank you for the reply and a much clearer answer on this topic.

    However, with all due respect. Even when Microsoft changes its software, they take enormous effort to make it backward compatible for the vast majority of the hardware/software out there. Yes, MS has a lot more resources to expend on the effort, but they are dealing with thousands of hardware and software items. I cannot place blame on Dtv as I pay Tivo the service subscription every month for their machine and most obviously, because it worked prior to 7.2.

    I cannot fathom the reasoning for removing the compatability for both languages. It just smells of incompetence and lack of thought.

    Nonetheless, I applaud your efforts to help the consumer understand the clear error made by Tivo.
     
  10. pintnight

    pintnight BOO!

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    Oct 6, 2004
    West of...
    I think I see the problem with my Tivo not changing channels on my DirecTV Sony SAT-HD300..

    As my understanding of what Tivo did to drop "English" and add "Spanish" and so the new Tivo 7.2 software cannot communicate with my DTV recv to change channel.

    What I kind find troubling is that why can't you use both "English" and "Spanish". I would think that if you use "English" protocol and DTV recv doesn't support, a error would occur? Or is this a one way street that you send the data and forget it and just assume that the channel got changed?

    So, I now have a worthless Tivo. And no, I don't want to go through the hassel of adding the IR because there is a reason to not have the IR hooked up in the first place.

    Sigh..... :thumbsdown: :mad:
     
  11. pintnight

    pintnight BOO!

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    Oct 6, 2004
    West of...
    Another thing, if and ever that Tivo get their ducks in a row and resolve the issue of my DTV changing channels working again, I'm unpluging my Tivo from the network. Don't need to get burned like this again. :mad:
     
  12. TiVoPony

    TiVoPony New Member

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    May 11, 2002
    Alviso,...
    This is not a case of backward compatability, or an error by TiVo. It's a case of DIRECTV removing functionality from their products that has been there for years, working correctly, and only then discovering that what they've left behind for us to use doesn't work according to their own spec.

    Supporting a protocol that DIRECTV is actively stripping out of all existing and new products was not in our plan. That's hardly incompetent, and your comments, while born of frustration, are not fair. The fact that DIRECTV does not follow their own protocol on their own products...that's the problem.

    Your frustration, while understandable, is misdirected. I'm sorry that you feel TiVo has dropped the ball, but we're not the bad guys here.

    Pony
     
  13. pintnight

    pintnight BOO!

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    Oct 6, 2004
    West of...
    Wheter DirecTV removed the protocol or not, you guys at TiVo can continue to have both protocol your Tivo, have it default to the new protocol by default and have a setting for people like me that is still using the old protocol so that I can continue to use the data port to change channels. Or if you can actually test to see if what protocol work or not.

    I'm a software developer, it's not all that hard. Have one function does the old protocol and new function use the new protocol. It doesn't take a genius to do that.

    So, yes, you guys dropped the ball on us for users that are using the old protocol that DirecTV dropped on the newer receivers and you guys can do better to help us instead of telling us "switch to IR, that's your only choice" is pretty bad IMO. :thumbsdown:
     
  14. rpalmeri

    rpalmeri 無心 member

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    Nov 14, 2002
    Asheville, NC
    When it looked like DirecTV and TiVo would never again play nice together, I bought an RCA DRD435RH Satellite Receiver from Amazon, and retired my D10.
    I now have Tivo 7.2.0-oth-01-2-140 and all is working well. The channels change to local with the serial APG and there is no screensaver.
    My thanks again to ccwf's postings, which guided me through all this.
    So for $50, paid for by DirecTV [I've been with them for many years], all was fixed and has stayed fixed.
     
  15. pintnight

    pintnight BOO!

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    Oct 6, 2004
    West of...
    I sent a PM to TiVoPony and still haven't heard back from him whether they are going to put back the old protocol back in Tivo along with a new protocol that communicate with the data port and to add code to be smarter which protocol to use. Or they could add a test menu like they do to the IR testing that ask you "did the channel change to #?" and you respond with yes or no.

    I even ask him that I'll be willing to help fix the code right but, nothing from him yet.

    Nice that Tivo just tell customers that been effected by their lack of thought about continue to support people like that was effected by the change. :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :mad:

    Tivo sucks big time. :mad:
     
  16. curiousgeorge

    curiousgeorge Member

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    Nov 28, 2002
    Holy cow, this is a really lame comment. DirecTV are the bad guys here. I personally believe they are actively seeking to cause *exactly* this kind of dissent by DirecTV changing their serial protocol to "break" TiVos. After TiVo went out of their way to get the D10 working again with the serial, it appears that just tonight DirecTV changed or removed the protocol AGAIN because the serial is broken on my D10 after I watched it spontaneously upgrade and reboot last night.

    TiVo are the good guys. DirectTV are the ones playing dirty to make points for their crappy DVR knockoffs.
     
  17. pintnight

    pintnight BOO!

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    West of...
    It is NOT a lame exuses.

    I don't care who removed a feature. DirectTV removed a protocol that Tivo was supporting and then Tivo removed that feature. Tivo can do two protocols just like they can support the thousands and thousands of IR support.

    It's not hard at all for Tivo to continue to support the old protcol that DirecTV dropped since Tivo was doing it already. All they had to do was be smarter on which protocol to use.

    For me, DirecTV and Tivo are being the bad guys by saying "it's their fault!" and then "no, it's thier fault'. I don't give a crap who's fault it is.

    As I said before, Tivo can do both protocol, Tivo is being lazy and just passing the blame game to DirecTV and wipe it's hands clean and tell customers like me to "fvck off" while DirecTV does the same.

    I'm a software developer and have worked on numerous hardware devices back in the 90's and it was required that features for the hardware that was supported to be still be supported for the hardware that been changed that's no is longer availble, it was required because the customers expected everything to work no matter what version of the hardware they have.

    This is no different from what DirecTV did and Tivo just said "eff em, we will just no longer support it too."
     
  18. bicker

    bicker bUU

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    Nov 9, 2003
    Florida
    I agree with curiousgeorge. There is a problem, but it is a problem with DirecTV. It isn't rational to take out frustrations with DirecTV's actions on any other entity.
     
  19. pintnight

    pintnight BOO!

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    Oct 6, 2004
    West of...
    Listen bicker and curiousgeorge, you don't seem to understand where I'm coming from. Yes, it was bad that DirecTV changed the protocol. But that does not mean that Tivo also decide to drop the old protcol also.

    My DirecTV Sony Sat HD-300 is still using the old protocol and so Tivo cannot change the channel on my DirecTV anymore with the data port. Tivo dropped the ball on this on me and others that are still using the old protocol.

    What Tivo need to do is still support the old protocol and new protocol but need to be smarter which protocol to use. It's not that hard to do for Tivo to do that.

    Count me in the group that I will no longer buy Tivo anymore. I'm going to get the DriecTV DVR as soon as they release it next year and will take a sledge hammer and beat the sh!t out of it and mail it to Tivo to show my frustration of Tivo not getting it that they need to support multiple protocol. :mad:
     
  20. megazone

    megazone Hardcore TiVo Geek

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    Mar 3, 2002
    .worcester.m...
    TiVo has a license agreement with DirecTV. My understand it is that DirecTV told them to stop using the old protocol, and TiVo has to do so, period. So while technically, sure, supporting both isn't a problem - contractually my understanding is that they can't. They were told to switch to the new protocol, and ONLY the new protocol, and that's what they have to do.

    And if you really trash a perfectly good piece of hardware, you're a complete idiot.

    If you don't want it sell it and give the money to charity - hell, donate it to charity.
     

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