CES 2006: DirecTV Plus HD DVR with pics!!!

Discussion in 'DirecTV TiVo Powered PVRs & Receivers' started by lee espinoza, Jan 5, 2006.

  1. Jan 6, 2006 #61 of 115
    morgantown

    morgantown DTV + Tvio = ;-)

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    Wild...
    Check out the first post at the bottom. Free, $99, and $200. If that price is right and the unit works well, I'd guess they will move fast.
     
  2. Jan 6, 2006 #62 of 115
    tivolocity

    tivolocity Member

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    I read a post from someone who went to the TiVo booth, that the T3 will support native passthrough. Has anyone read or heard if the HR20 will support native passthrough?
     
  3. Jan 6, 2006 #63 of 115
    tbeckner

    tbeckner TiVo Fan

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    So what you are saying is that there is very little HD content, actually a very good reason not to buy into HD.
     
  4. Jan 6, 2006 #64 of 115
    tbeckner

    tbeckner TiVo Fan

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    One major difference. I can still use that year old computer to do everything it was bought for, but the HR10-250 will not be able to record MPEG4 feeds from DirecTV. Now that is a mjor difference.

    Again, the H10-250 will not be able to record or display MPEG4 feeds from DirecTV, and even though it will continue to function with the MPEG2 (actually not real MPEG2) feeds from DirecTV and for most people is all they recieve today, the equipment has been burned by DirecTV. And again, what I was attempting to point out, is that HD is still in a state of FLUX, and past equipment is being made Obsolete even before it is a couple of years old.
     
  5. Jan 6, 2006 #65 of 115
    tbeckner

    tbeckner TiVo Fan

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    That is an EASY bet, since the CableCard people are their own worst emeny. And DirecTV has a closed system.
     
  6. Jan 6, 2006 #66 of 115
    tbeckner

    tbeckner TiVo Fan

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    Actually I returned in the first generation Betamax (because it would not record more than an hour and they kept promising two hours, and believe it or not they refunded the full purchase price even after 90 days).

    I guess what I am saying, I do not plan on buying into HD, until everyone else has paid for it development and deployment. As one current HD user pointed out in another post as a rebuttal to 1080p, he said only 10% of content is up to 720p format, which actually supports what I was attempting to point out, HD is so new and still has many major milestones to go before it is ready for primetime.

    And I will wait for all of those advances to be made and the amount of actual HD content to at least approach 50% before I jump on the HD bandwagon. Agreed, I will miss out on a lot of NFL and College Football in HD, but I can wait. Other than football and maybe some movies, there is no real compelling reason to get HD. In fact, if you or I had bought into HD when 40 inch Plasma TV’s cost a minimum of 10 grand, we would both would be kicking ourselves when we see that 40 inch LCD TV’s are under 3 grand. And next year 40 inch LCD TV’s could be under 2 grand. Understand what I am saying.

    And as I pointed out earlier, a PC I buy today will be able to run everything that it was bought to run for more than three years later, in fact, with minor upgrades over eight years, (MEMORY, CPU, Hard Drives, Video Card, and OS), I have machines that I built 8 years ago that are running Windows XP, abet slowly, but they run, and even run WOW. The same cannot be said about the HR10-250 being able to function with MPEG4 feeds, and it cannot even be upgraded, it’s just dead in the water.

    But also, understand that I am happy there are people willing to pay for the development and deployment of HD, and willing to work out all of the bugs so I don’t have to.
     
  7. Jan 6, 2006 #67 of 115
    aztivo

    aztivo Member

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    actually your hoa can not stop you from putting up an antenna. It is the law that they must allow it
     
  8. Jan 6, 2006 #68 of 115
    tbeckner

    tbeckner TiVo Fan

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    Now that is SCARY! A company who has never done a DVR (except maybe the "R15") before is writing the software! This may explain why the "R15" has some major design flaws, and the fact that it does not appear to be supporting all of the NDS functionality. Is DirecTV crazy?
     
  9. Jan 6, 2006 #69 of 115
    ebonovic

    ebonovic has gone his way...

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    Tinley...

    Come on now... It doesn't have any major "design" flaws.

    Design "differences" maybe, and a few bugs... but I don't think there is anything wrong with the "design"

    Crazy... Nah... I just think they "listen" to what we all said about the Sky+ product have way to many issues... As programmers we all know... Sometimes it is just better to start with a clean slate and some knowledge, then try to fix, re-fix, reenginer something else.

    Just because "They" as in DirecTV hasn't done this before, doesn't mean the people actually doing the project haven't done it before. Last time I we checked, we don't have access to their hiring portfolio...

    It's not like TiVo just fell from the sky in the current form it is...

    .... tbeckner (tried sending you a PM, but couldn't.. hmmm)

    Anyway, have you actually tried the R15 or are you just going off what everyone has written? I can't remember if you have or haven't ( I know we probably covered this a few months back, but heck... I am getting old)
     
  10. Jan 6, 2006 #70 of 115
    tbeckner

    tbeckner TiVo Fan

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    You call the lack of two buffers NOT A MAJOR DESIGN FLAW and the fact that the one functional 90 minute buffer resets all the time. Both of those are major design flaws in the basic operation of the "R15" and those same flaws will likely be in the "HR20", if it is built by the same team with the same design.

    As we both know (I have been in software development for 33 years), sometimes it is important to design from scratch, but only if the previous basic design has major flaws or cannot be easily and functionally extended. Just redesigning major software for the act of the fun of redesigning it is not what should happen. Redesigning can introduce new flaws and bugs and is not always cost effective.

    Agreed we don’t have any insight into their design and development team, other than they released a product, the “R15” with some very basic design flaws, which is the best insight we will ever get. The buffer handling in the new DirecTV DVR is basically a cheap fix. And the two buffer flaw will likely not be fixed very soon. They might be able to fix the resetting of the current buffer sooner, unless it is at the core of their design functionality.

    I knew you would attempt to support the “R15”, but you have to agree that from a pure DVR functionality standpoint compared to the DirecTiVos, the lack of a dual buffer is a major flaw. And even worst, the resetting of the live buffer on exiting to specific functions is another flaw.

    Since we both have differently degrees of knowledge at the software development and design level we will likely always disagree, but then my design training goes back to NASA based functional design concepts and binary based functional array testing that eliminates almost all major design flaws (Although it is NOT PERFECT), and is something that is no longer taught in college.

    I would say at least the lead designers of the “R15” likely never used a DirecTiVo before they designed the “R15”, or they would not have screwed up the dual buffer concept and live buffer reset functionality.

    Additional Edit:

    I pulled the PM from my profile when I was posting "Wal-Mart" posts that specific people didn't agree with. I am very Anti-Wal-Mart and I am currently supporting a group of people here in Bend Oregon who are opposing a building of a new Wal-Mart SuperStore.

    Thanks God that I am not alone. I noticed just in the last two weeks that 20 states are attempting to pass bills to force Wal-Mart to provide better Health Care Insurance. Finally enough people have picked up on the fact that Wal-Mart is stealing from us in hidden ways to help promote their business. Enough said.
     
  11. Jan 6, 2006 #71 of 115
    HiDefGator

    HiDefGator New Member

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    I and I suspect many others do not consider the lack of dual buffers a major design flaw. In fact I don't consider it a design flaw at all. I would happily trade Tivo's dual 30 minutes buffers fora single 90 minute buffer. I believe the designer's listened to quite a few people with the same opinion as me and made the change from Tivo's design. Garnted they certainly could have done dual 90 minute buffers and made everyone happy, but a lack of dual buffers is not a major design flaw. Get real.
     
  12. Jan 6, 2006 #72 of 115
    emeril2k1

    emeril2k1 New Member

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    What does Cable Card have to do with it? It's done.


    "Tivo has promised a HD-capable DVR with CableCARD support next year.

    NCTA says: The Commission asked for a report on the “effort to develop and deploy a multistream CableCARD.” We are pleased to present the following information in response to that request. The specifications for Multistream CableCARDs and the Multistream CabelCARD interface are complete. The “M-card” will operate in a backwards compatible, single-stream manner with single stream devices (for example, in a UDCP); or in the multi-stream manner with multi-stream devices. See CableCARD Interface 2.0 Specification OC-SP-CCIF2.0-I02-050708, http://www.opencable.com/specifications/. Pre-Qualified samples of the multistream CableCARD will be submitted to CableLabs for preliminary testing in the fourth quarter of 2005, with the expectation of full testing and qualification early in 2006. It is expected that multistream CableCARDs will be widely available for use in commercially available commercial devices by mid-2006."


    The HR20 mockup will be the one we're still waiting for at the 2007 CES.

    Has anyone else noticed how Butt Ugly the HR20 Mockup is?
     
  13. Jan 6, 2006 #73 of 115
    tbeckner

    tbeckner TiVo Fan

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    But since DirecTV has decided that the lack of dual buffers is a problem and are promising to add dual buffers, then DirecTV actually believes it is a major flaw that needs to be corrected.

    If DirecTV had told everyone to GO FISH, then that they would not be admitting that it a problem, but since they are promising to add dual buffering, which is likely going to cost the company a pile of money, then they are admitting that it is a major flaw in the original design. Sony would not add a right handed widget to their remote control unless the right handed widget was worth the cost.

    And in addition, you do have to admit that the resetting of the live buffer when exiting to perform other functions is a pain the butt. If this was a TiVo that reset the live buffer when you went back to NOW SHOWING, don’t you believe people would be upset. You bet they would. Although the problem of the resetting of the live buffer should be easier to fix than the dual buffer situation, which could take sometime and a pile of money to correct, and it could introduce a whole pile of additional bugs.

    Again, it might not be a Major Design Flaw to some people, except that DirecTV has really admitted it to be a Major Design Flaw, but committing to spending the money to rework the software to include it. Companies do not make major expensive changes to software unless there is a very strong compelling reason to do so.
     
  14. Jan 6, 2006 #74 of 115
    nelsonrl

    nelsonrl New Member

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    You are right, but I do still have to live next door to the people I would make mad by putting one up. What the law says and what we agreed to do when we moved into the subdivision are not the same thing. The reality is that very few of the conditions in a HOA can be easily enforced without a legal battle most HOA's cannot afford. But, it is my practice to obey the terms and I expect others in my neighborhood to do the same.
     
  15. Jan 6, 2006 #75 of 115
    tbeckner

    tbeckner TiVo Fan

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    There is no doubt that the HR20 mockup was butt ugly, nothing was labeled on the back, and you should understand that I am a great supporter of the Series 3 TiVo, with its Ethernet Connector, and eSATA connector.

    But you have to agree that the Cable and CableCard people are still infighting. The current 1.0 CableCards will not allow OnDemand selections and other necessary functionality that is necessary to eliminate the set-top boxes, which cripples the CableCard solutions.

    The Cable Companies need to realize that they need the CableCard solution and they both need to work to solve all of the video delivery problems, not just the ones that they feel they want to.

    Currently the CableCard 1.0 solution is a half-ass solution to the cable video delivery problem, and until they solve all of the problems and get the CableCard solution to function with OnDemand, DirecTV will continue to eat their lunch. AND NO I AM NOT A DIRECTV LOVER.

    Additional Edit:

    Do you know if the CableCard 2.0 specification will work with cable OnDemand functionality? If it doesn't then the CableCard 2.0 specification is just as half-ass a solution as the 1.0 specification, except maybe for the Multi-Stream capability.
     
  16. Jan 6, 2006 #76 of 115
    HiDefGator

    HiDefGator New Member

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    There is huge a difference between a MAJOR FLAW and an enhancement request. A major flaw would make it disfunctional. The R15 is in no way disfunctional because it lacks dual buffer support.

    A major flaw would be a power supply that over heats, or a software bug that erases the hard drive. Just because it doesn't do something that previous Tivo users expect does not constitute a major flaw. If lack of dual buffers was a major flaw then the beta testers would have all reported it and it would have been addressed.

    If the R15 was only shipped to non-Tivo users no one would call DTV and say this DVR is defective because it lacks dual buffers. Lacking dual buffers is much like lacking internet support or caller id support. It may be missing currently but calling it a major flaw is just plain wrong.
     
  17. Jan 6, 2006 #77 of 115
    HiDefGator

    HiDefGator New Member

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    Dude. Mount the dish on a 4x4 post in your backyard. Mine only stands like 4 feet tall and its completely hidden. As long as you don't mount it on your roof in the front of the house they won't care.
     
  18. Jan 6, 2006 #78 of 115
    tbeckner

    tbeckner TiVo Fan

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    I wouldn't call dual buffers an enhancement request, because of the cost it will take them to develop it. And in any case I would say that dual buffer support does make the product somewhat disfunctional. In other words, it can not be used in the same fashion as all of the previous models.

    And when you are talking about a power supply overheating you are talking about a hardware design flaw or cheap hardware, not a software design flaw. I have no idea what the beta testers reported or could even report and if any of them had previous DVR experience, do you? I would not assume that they could have any feedback that would let the designers know that the "R15" was missing a major feature, do you. But since it was not addressed prior to release, but has been addressed after release and since it will likely be a major change to the core capabilties and will again likely cost a bucket of money, companies don't make major changes to the core of a product unless they screwed up.

    Funny that you mention CALLER-ID support, I wouldn't call CALLER-ID support on a DVR as being a major feature or function, I would only call lacking a major DVR function as being a major FLAW, but since you said something, I dropped QWEST One-Flex VOIP because the service could not supply CALLER-ID by NAME. In addition, QWEST said they could on the FAQ, now that was a major flaw, in addition all of their voicemails and call logs where time stamped MOUNTAIN TIME and there was no way to change them. All of those where MAJOR FLAWS, and in the case of NO CALLER-ID by NAME, enough of a flaw to drop the service the day I installed it.

    But what are you arguing about? DirecTV has already admitted that the lack of dual buffers is a major enough problem to spend a considerable amount of money to rectify. DirecTV has admitted to the problem, what makes you think that you need to admit to the problem, before it can be deemed a major flaw.
     
  19. Jan 6, 2006 #79 of 115
    Billy66

    Billy66 Again with shoelaces

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    Well, they said they intend to add it, they didn't say they acknowledge it as a major flaw. TiVo is regularly looking to add new features to improve the usability of their product without the admission that the previous software contained a major flaw. DTV is apparently doing the same thing.
     
  20. Jan 6, 2006 #80 of 115
    nelsonrl

    nelsonrl New Member

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    The dish isn't the problem, I found a place on my roof that cannot be seen from the street or wither side yard. The need for an antenna is the issue. My attic has a heat shield - each piece of roof sheeting is lined with a foil material to keep attic heat down so an antenna in the attic is next to useless. It still really comes down to who has the most of my preferred HD content on the preferred equipment in HD. Right now the DirecTV HD DVR is by far better than what I can get from the cable companies DVR. but cable has the best content in my opinion. If I can purchase a Tivo Series 3 DVR with cable card functionality, that may be enough to move me to cable. I realize PPV is not available on cable card, but I have not bought over 2 or 3 PPV movies in my many years with DirecTV so that is really not an issue. Bottom line, I think the new Tivo's with cable card are a real threat to DirecTV. There are potentially more options that will be considered than were available when I purchesed my two DVR's - which is nice.
     

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