Can't play some recorded programs

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by bobfrank, Mar 22, 2018.

  1. bobfrank

    bobfrank Active Member

    464
    155
    Mar 17, 2005

    Advertisements

    This is a continuation and reoccurance of a problem I posted about last year. Recap and update:

    Last year the problem with my several year old Roameo started with some recorded programs not being playable. When I pressed play or selected play the screen would just blink and remain as it was. First it was just a come programs on certain channels. Then it became all programs recorded after a certain date. I could copy the programs to my PC and they would play fine. I could copy them to another Tivo and they would play fine. Also, a video uploaded to the Tivo wouldn't play either.

    The hard drive was fine, recoding the video in VideoReDo didn't help. Neither did any of the other trouble shooting fixes suggested to me. I finally gave up and ordered a new Bolt. Everything worked fine on the new Bolt.

    I then ran a Clear and Delete Everything on the old Roamio. That actually fixed my problem. The old programs that wouldn't play before did now. Newly recorded programs played fine. I could upload videos an play them as well. So I returned the Bolt.

    Everything worked well for about 6 weeks or so. Then I started having the same problem with the Roameo again. So I bought another new Bolt. Everything worked as it should once more with the new Bolt.

    The 6 or 7 weeks later the same old problem starts again with the new Bolt. Too late to return it for a refund. It seems now that I can't go more than 6 or 7 weeks between Clear and Delete before the Tivos start acting up again.

    Is anyone else having a similar problem? Last time I posted about this there didn't seem to be anyone else with the same problem.

    Any thoughts as to a cure? If I can't solve this I may be forced to a cable company DVR. I've owned at least one of every model of Tivo starting with the Series 1, with the exception of the Premiere. I can hardly stand the thought of moving to the cable company DVR.
     
  2. tenthplanet

    tenthplanet Well-Known Member

    1,600
    477
    Mar 5, 2004
    It could be the hard drive, being it's the only moving part in modern computers other then a fan it most prone to have things go wrong. They are like car batteries in that they should go for a long time without trouble, but they don't know that. I would talk to Tivo to see if they might work out a deal to get your Bolt working right.
     
  3. rdrrepair

    rdrrepair Bill Knapp

    1,437
    295
    Nov 24, 2006
    845 New York
    What's the Temperature reported from the TiVo's?
     
  4. bobfrank

    bobfrank Active Member

    464
    155
    Mar 17, 2005
    The Bolt, which is now sitting in the open is 55. The Roameo, in a cabinet, is 46.
     
  5. rdrrepair

    rdrrepair Bill Knapp

    1,437
    295
    Nov 24, 2006
    845 New York

    Advertisements

    Stock drives or larger than original? Percentage of recorded programs in each? Number of TiVo boxes listed under your account on the TiVo website?

    It sound like a HD to me too. Is it on the same tv set you're experiencing this? I once had a handshake issue with a tv set that kinda sounds like this. It was an older HD Sony rear projection. I solved it by using the component inputs instead of the hdmi.

    Sony Tv Causing My Tivo To Freeze

    .
     
  6. Mikeguy

    Mikeguy Well-Known Member

    27,636
    9,203
    Jul 28, 2005
    I'm wondering, might it be a software or database conflict/corruption of some type, which is causing the systems to refuse to play a recorded show that is perfectly fine? Just checking, by any chance had you made any alteration to the TiVo software or TiVo box--is the hard drive the original?

    Perhaps related, you mentioned that you ran a Clear and Delete Everything on the old Roamio which fixed the problem, and that the old programs that wouldn't play before did, now. The Clear and Delete Everything had wiped out all your content, right? (I haven't run a Clear and Delete Everything before.) Assuming that's the case, where did these old programs that subsequently would play come from--another TiVo box on your network, or your PC? You also mentioned that you could upload videos and play them as well--where did that content come from (your PC)? By any chance, did you customize the metadata for shows being transferred to the box from your PC, if you transferred content that way, and/or did you create metadata files and how? Similarly, did you create folders on the box through transferring content to it from your PC with customized metadata? I'm just wondering if there might be some "outside influence" that might shed some light here, such as metadata corrupting the database/software. Or an issue/conflict caused by personalized/outside-the-TiVo-universe show metadata and metadata on TiVo's own servers.

    If you had transferred content to the TiVo box which had originated from outside the "TiVo universe" (i.e. from your PC), I wonder if deleting all such content and starting fresh again through another Clear and Delete Everything might work, this time not moving any content back to your box from your PC (or from another TiVo box that such outside-the-TiVo-universe content now may be on). In other words, keeping the box plain and virgin. If it then seems ok, you could try moving to the box content from another TiVo box but still solely within the TiVo universe--if there then is an issue, that would seem to be a second issue area.

    Any other pattern between the use of the various boxes that you can think of, apart from plain vanilla use, that perhaps (unexpectedly) might be causing them to continually revert to a non-playing state?

    Dare I mention it, but: might it make sense to contact (gulp) TiVo customer support? Almost certainly, the Tier 1 folks won't have an answer (? but who knows?) and this would have to be escalated to an engineer. Have you yet contacted TiVo--if so, what was the result?
     
  7. bobfrank

    bobfrank Active Member

    464
    155
    Mar 17, 2005
    The Roameo Pro was bought new from Weakknees with their upgrade to 4TB back when the Roameo was fairly new. The Bolt is a stock 3TB bought new directly from Tivo. The Roameo was at about 75% full and the Bolt was probably close to 60% full. I have 5 Tivos and 2 Minis on my account.

    I have serious doubts that it is the hard drive. I've owned enough Tivos, and had a few drive failures during that time, that this doesn't act like a hard drive problem. In addition, the video files are not corrupted in any way. They play fine on my PC and if I transfer them to an older Tivo. Also, it's unlikely that I'd have two the identical problem on two different Tivos, one of which was new.

    As far as a HDMI problem, I have trouble accepting that also. The problem gets corrected with a clear and delete everything, Even with a different Tivo the problem showed up after about 6 weeks.

    One seemingly unrelated problem also occurs at about the same time the unplayable recordings start to show. A really weird problem with creating a new wish list starts as well.

    Thank you for your thoughts, but with the problem resurfacing on the two different model Tivos they just don't seem to be very likely the cause of the problem.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2018
  8. bobfrank

    bobfrank Active Member

    464
    155
    Mar 17, 2005
    The hard drives on both the Roameo and the Bolt are original. The Roameoa was purchased from Weakknees with their 4TB upgrade disk several years ago when the Roameo was a fairly new model. The Bolt is a stock 3TB purchased directly from Tivo. The only software changes were those made by Tivo. This problem started showing up last May. There have been several software changes by Tivo since then.

    Sorry I wasn't clear on the Clear and Delete Everything. I copied all the programs that had been recorded on the Tivo to my PC or to other older Tivos I still own before doing the Clear and Delete Everything. Before you ever run Clear and Delete Everything just remember it does exactly what it says, EVERYTHING.
    Any videos I uploaded after the problem started wouldn't play. Tivo files from recorded shows, video files or video files with meta data attached. I transfer files to and from the Tivo with Pytivo and use MetaGenerator 3 for meta date. Sometimes I do create folders to upload to.

    I've owned at least one of every model of Tivo from the Series 1 to the Bolt, with the exception of the Premiere, and there's nothing I'm doing different. It's really weird that the problem didn't occur for several years with the Roameo, and now it occurs after 6 weeks or so on the Roameo as well the the new Bolt.

    What adds to the weirdness, and why I haven't bothered with Tivo support, is that no one else seems to be experiencing the same problem. I started posting about this back in May with the trouble first started and not one person posted that they were having the same problems. Also, I believe we have better experts on strange Tivo behavior right here in these forums than Tivo has available to customers.

    I really appreciate your comments and suggestions.
     
  9. HerronScott

    HerronScott Well-Known Member

    7,535
    1,102
    Jan 1, 2002
    Staunton, VA
    The fact that it has happened with 2 different TiVo's (Roamio and the Bolt) and no one else here has reported this would seem to point to something unique in your environment but heck if I can think what it would be. You indicated that the shows would play fine if you transferred them to another TiVo (what other TiVo were you transferring them to?). Did you try just Clear Program and To Do Information versus Clear and Delete Everything? What cable company are you using?

    Scott
     
  10. rdrrepair

    rdrrepair Bill Knapp

    1,437
    295
    Nov 24, 2006
    845 New York
    Your tv set brand... Is it a Sony?
     
  11. Mikeguy

    Mikeguy Well-Known Member

    27,636
    9,203
    Jul 28, 2005
    A few others have reported this issue previously--this is not just you.

    I have a hypothesis, that this may be a result of shows from outside the TiVo world being introduced to a TiVo box as a result of a PC-TiVo transfer (and to be included in that, TiVo-to-TiVo transfers where the show being transferred had originated from a PC and from outside the TiVo world).

    You mentioned that you transfer content data files from your PC to the TiVo box, with metadata--I take that to mean, with associated metadata files. I am thinking that for some reason (perhaps TiVo's move to its newer database system a few years back?), metadata files associated with PC-transferred files (meaning specifically, content files created not by a TiVo box originally) may cause a conflict with the TiVo software and database and cause a malfunction and/or corruption, which then goes on to affect more than the transferred content files themselves. Now why there would be a time lag for this to manifest itself, I don't know--it almost feels like a corruption that needs to work its way through the TiVo box system, akin to a virus working its way through the system.

    It also could be the simple process of transferring a file to a TiVo box from a PC that introduces the corruption factor. But something is suggesting to me, it's not just that--wouldn't more people have been having issues, in that case? Rather, I'm wondering if it's the separate metadata files and metadata that are introducing the corruption/failure factor--fewer people create metadata files, leading to fewer people with issues. Or, possibly, the transfer of content files with associated metadata files where folders will be created on the TiVo box--perhaps that causes a corruption. Or, I guess, it also could be something in certain content files themselves--something in the format, etc.

    Before I'm told that I'm totally in "X-Files" land here, recall that TiVo had noted previously that some shows that were transferred between TiVo boxes after TiVo switched its database system a few years back could have transfer issues. For example, I have some old PBS shows that had been recorded on my old Series 2 box that, when transferred to my Bolt, randomly have shown up with completely different show names and graphics, even while other shows in the same show series show up correct.

    If one were to experiment, I would say to first Clear and Delete Everything, to hopefully start from a clean slate. Then, don't transfer anything to the box--only use it for new TiVo-made recordings on the box. Is it ok? (The hitch here is, how long to wait, before making this determination--multiple weeks, based on when you saw issues develop previously (hadn't you said that problems would appear 6-7 weeks later?)?)

    If it is ok,you now have a baseline of safety. Then perhaps proceed by baby steps to transfer shows to the cleaned TiVo box, starting with shows on other absolutely clean TiVo boxes. I probably would not transfer a show from a box that had been infected and not yet cleaned--it could be that all content files on the box, even ones created by the TiVo box and which did not come from "outside," are infected and would spread the infection to the newly-cleaned box. If that's ok, you then have a new safety baseline. At that point, perhaps transfer some new shows from a PC, but without any metadata files. (Again, avoiding any shows that had been on a problematic TiVo box previously, to avoid a possible re-infection caused by those.) If matters remain ok, that's a new baseline.

    And then, should you be so brave, you could try transferring to the clean box extra-TiVo content files along with associated metadata files (but not those that would create folders on the TiVo box), and see if anything happens. And then, extra-TiVo content with associated metadata files that will result in folder creation.

    The idea would be, to go incrementally and see where, if anywhere, a problem develops, to ascertain what the problem possibly is. To try to speed this process, you also could start in the middle, such as with extra-TiVo content files with or without associated metadata files, or at the "end," with extra-TiVo content files with associated folder-producing metadata files. Have to ponder that some, as to the most efficient means.

    I'm just guessing here--no engineer. But I'm wondering if there is a pattern to this all. See what you might think.
     
  12. bobfrank

    bobfrank Active Member

    464
    155
    Mar 17, 2005
    The other Tivos were a Series 3 (with the OLED window) and to a Tivo HD.

    When I first started having problems with the Roameo last May the first thing I noticed was that certain programs had a different program name and description. That problem was solved with a Clear Program and To Do Information. It solved the wrong names on the programs but didn't do anything for the shows that wouldn't play.

    I have Frontier FIOS, formerly Verizon here in California.
     
  13. bobfrank

    bobfrank Active Member

    464
    155
    Mar 17, 2005
    Panasonic. The problem persists even when moving the Tivo to another Panasonic in the house.
     
  14. bobfrank

    bobfrank Active Member

    464
    155
    Mar 17, 2005
    I'll take you word for it that others have posted with the same problem. I consistently read most of these Tivo forums including the Tivo Help, Tivo Home and Media, both the Roameo and Bolt forums along with a few others and don't remember seeing any of them. None of them have replied to my posts about the problem.

    I think maybe an X-Files event might be the cause, considering that it has been happening with two different Tivos. One of them shortly after the return for refund period had passed. Aliens are sneaking into my home at night to mess with my Tivo. sigh

    I may take your advise and start from scratch without transferring any videos from my PC. Unfortunately, that kills one of the Tivo features I really like to use. Even though the problem has surfaced within 6 weeks or so the last couple of times, there's no telling how long it might to reappear.

    Thank you for your thoughts. After having been with Tivo for so long I would really hate to have to move to a cable DVR. That'd be like going back to a stick shift, no power steering car. Yuck.
     
  15. Mikeguy

    Mikeguy Well-Known Member

    27,636
    9,203
    Jul 28, 2005
    The question is, under my hypothesis, exactly where in the process is the problem/conflict coming from. My bet is, either the separate metadata file that one can create for a content file being transferred from a PC, or the folder creation aspect of it.
     
  16. bobfrank

    bobfrank Active Member

    464
    155
    Mar 17, 2005
    First I'll have to see if the problem reoccurs when only recording shows and not transferring them from the PC. It will take at least 3 months for me to feel that might be the solution if the problem doesn't show up by then. After than I can test uploading with separate metadata files for another 2 months, at least. Lastly I can see if adding folder creation causes problems. Maybe I'll have an answer by New Years.

    I will use the other Tivo to stream my DVD videos until then.
     
  17. HerronScott

    HerronScott Well-Known Member

    7,535
    1,102
    Jan 1, 2002
    Staunton, VA
    Were these shows that you had transferred from your PC (and possibly ones that had old metadata from before the Rovi change)? It is sounding similar to what Mike is suggesting. Are you using the latest version of Metagenerator to generate metadata txt files?

    Scott
     
  18. Mikeguy

    Mikeguy Well-Known Member

    27,636
    9,203
    Jul 28, 2005
    I'm still pondering it all. I wish there was a way to test the alternatives out without the long and inconvenient, mind-numbing waits.

    And another possible option to throw into the mix: the transfer of shows from PC to TiVo without separate metadata files.

    I wonder if it would be possible to run this by a TiVo engineer. Or, to check with TiVo_Ted here?
     
  19. bobfrank

    bobfrank Active Member

    464
    155
    Mar 17, 2005
    No, the incorrect program listing for shows were all for programs recorded on the Tivo. That problem has not reoccured.

    I'm using the latest Megagenerator as far as I know. The version I'm using is 3.5.3.0.
     
  20. bobfrank

    bobfrank Active Member

    464
    155
    Mar 17, 2005
    I also wish there was some way to speed up testing the alternatives. I still really doubt that the metadata is the source of the problem, but first I have to test to see if the problem occurs with nothing but plain vanilla recordings.
     

Share This Page

spam firewall

Advertisements