Can MoCA from Roamio work for computer?

Discussion in 'TiVo Roamio DVRs' started by dmk1974, Feb 8, 2019.

  1. dmk1974

    dmk1974 DA BEARS!!!

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    Thanks. I may need to wait until tomorrow to try that. Family is watching a movie.

    I was able to do the HTML trick to turn off the wireless radios. But no light yet on the front for Coax. Figured it would light up as long as I had a cable screwed onto it. In the settings, since it says Disconnected, I can't enter in the MoCA network password from my TiVo yet.
     
  2. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    The coax/MoCA status LED on the WCB3000N will only light-up once a successful MoCA connection has been made.

    That’s the tech equivalent of burying the lede.

    If using a privacy password with your MoCA setup, you may have to do some HTML trickery similar to disabling the wireless, to get the MoCA password entered on the WCB3000N. (I forget.) That TamperMonkey user script might facilitate the effort, if so.
     
  3. fcfc2

    fcfc2 Well-Known Member

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    If you have a proper MoCA filter installed on your coax network as you should on all but Fios, what does using MoCA encryption on your Tivos or anything else for that matter get you?
     
  4. mdavej

    mdavej Well-Known Member

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    I have 3 of these, and all I did was plug them in and press the WPS button. Wifi and Moca was up and running literally within one minute. Couldn't be simpler.

    Would you pick up a guitar and declare it a piece of crap, just a wooden box with a bunch of strings, simply because you don't know how to play it?

    And what's with your Moca password? Why are you using one at all? You are only making life difficult for yourself. Who exactly would ever come into your house without your knowledge, connect to your coax network with a Moca enabled device and get on your LAN? That would never happen in a million years.
     
  5. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Though it's not in the neighborhood or even zip code of wardriving, the practice of installing "PoE" MoCA filters outside the home, often in the open or in unsecured junction boxes, does increase the security exposure for MoCA installs.

    See: 'MoCA: Operation and Security Posture' paper

    I figured if they wanted the extra hurdle/protection of a MoCA privacy password, it's up to them; I don't know their risk profile. Of course, it's probably very good you guys pointed-out the diminished need for the MoCA privacy password when a "PoE" MoCA filter is in place; it's possible the OP wasn't aware.
     
  6. mdavej

    mdavej Well-Known Member

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    Interesting paper, but we're well into major tin foil hat territory.

    I'll put myself in the shoes of a cyber-criminal for a second.

    What are the odds I'd go driving around a neighborhood with the intent of connecting directly to somebody's outside junction box and remove their Moca filter to get on their LAN rather than just sit in my Mom's basement in Albania hacking away day and night - close to zero.

    Now what are the odds that the house I choose has Tivo and/or Moca at all - close to zero.

    What are the odds that I've even heard of Moca - close to zero.

    What are the odds that if I do get on that person's LAN that I'll be able to access any of their important files - close to zero.

    Since I minored in math 30 years ago, I remember that a very small number times another small number times another small number times another small number is a really, really, really, really small number.
     
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  7. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Apparently the “not in the neighborhood or even zip code of wardriving” qualifier was insufficient.

    An intrusion wouldn’t necessarily require someone to “come into your house,” as was stated, and however low the probability, it is greater than “never happen in a million years” — largely dependent on the profile of the target, rather than a random selection.


    edit: p.s. For the sake of pointless argument...
    It really depends on whether the framing is general odds of my network being randomly discovered and targeted, versus "If I am targeted..."
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  8. mdavej

    mdavej Well-Known Member

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    It was, only because I didn't look up the term "wardriving" until after I posted. Sorry about that. I wouldn't make a very good cyber-criminal.

    But I see your point. John McAfee needs to lock his junction box, if he has a Tivo.
     
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  9. dmk1974

    dmk1974 DA BEARS!!!

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    I didn't have time to mess with it since Saturday. Realistically, just getting into the settings which should be pretty easy to do was frustrating, but krkaufman was good enough to suggest the other IP which worked.

    I have a POE filter already at the junction coming into my house since 2013. I've been using the MoCA built into my TiVo to feed Mini's since then. If disabling the additional password is fine, I'll do it, but since it was there I figured why not? It hasn't hurt any setup or communication to my TiVo Mini's and worked perfect to those devices for almost 6 years. ONLY to the Actiontec apparently. I can't believe that I am restricted from even entering the password on that device. Whatever.

    I am not the original owner of my house so I'm not 100% sure were all the splits are for my coax throughout the house. Probably the attic. I only know of 2 splitters near the entrance of the main cable line. One is a good splitter for sure. Didn't yet check the other in the wall.

    While I am now getting a really good wireless speed to the Mac Mini that I was considering connecting via MoCA adapter, I may even get that $60 Motorola box and use it near my cable modem/router instead of through my TiVo. One of my TiVo Mini's on MoCA is a VOX and supposedly could benefit from the 2.0 speed vs the current 1.1 coming from the Roamio (however, the VOX seems way faster than the other older TiVo Mini's anyway).
     
  10. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    That’s kinda the point of the MoCA privacy password; a MoCA device shouldn’t be able to connect to your MoCA network without first being configured with the matching password. So the WCB3000N has proven your MoCA network’s privacy functionality.

    Well, there’s a reason the WCB3000N is available for $15; it’s a locked-down version of the firmware owing to it being a decommissioned ISP-supplied device. But as I mentioned above, the MoCA privacy password can be entered, I believe, but it requires more HTML/js trickery to enable the associated field and ‘Apply’ button. Given that you have a “PoE” MoCA filter installed, disabling MoCA privacy on your MoCA devices would be the path of least resistance.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  11. jcondon

    jcondon Well-Known Member

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    Hank and/or Saturn in this thread I think worked this out via a script. Might be worth a look.

    https://www.tivocommunity.com/commu...-the-it-guy-gal.499749/page-318#post-11685961
     
  12. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Have you used Hank's TamperMonkey script and can verify that the MoCA privacy password functionality is enabled?

    @Hank wrote the JS user script; @Saturn opted for another path, compiling his own firmware from source (link). I was just thinking about the custom firmware the other day, wondering if it was capable of configuring the WCB3000N as a bridge (wireless adapter, effectively), rather than as a wireless access point.
     
  13. jcondon

    jcondon Well-Known Member

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    No I haven't confirmed it worked. I don't have a WCB3000N to test it on.
     
  14. dmk1974

    dmk1974 DA BEARS!!!

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    Home now after work and I changed my Roamio to no encryption and the three TiVo Mini's as well. TiVo's are all good.

    Plugged in the Actiontec in my office with ethernet cable to the Mac Mini. Just took a minute or two and the Coax light illuminated! Didn't have to screw with any settings for the Actiontec now. Works just fine. All my trouble because of the stupid password enabled!

    [​IMG]
     
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  15. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    This hurdle was identified day before yesterday, immediately after the first mention that you were using a MoCA password. So, yeah, it would have been good to have known MoCA privacy was in use much earlier.
     
  16. dmk1974

    dmk1974 DA BEARS!!!

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    LOL, I know, but it's a quote from the movie that makes me think of day late (or two in my case).

    Not quite as fast as WiFi, but seems fine for normal browsing on my Mac Mini. Will try for a bit and maybe keep with the MoCA. My internet package is rated at 150 Mbps down/10 Mbps up, but I get a little faster than that on speedtest.net from my Mac Mini.

    WiFi: 175 down/11-12 up
    MoCA: 136 down/11-12 up
     
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  17. dmk1974

    dmk1974 DA BEARS!!!

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    I also updated my home cable/ethernet diagram. Took note of the splitters I found and had access too (couple from the Xfinity installer many years ago and one in the crawlspace that I had forgotten about, but don't currently use).

    I figure if it ain't broke, don't fix it, but would I get any benefit from switching out the two 5-1002 MHz splitters for some different models? The extra splutter floating in the bottom right is the one that came with the Actiontec 1.1 that I just got. I am tempted to grab a couple of MoCA 2.0 adapters (one for the Family Room which I would then disable the TiVo internal and then one to replace the Actiontec) to see if any benefit. Or just leave it and be happy ;)

    upload_2019-2-12_20-23-7.png
     
  18. mdavej

    mdavej Well-Known Member

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    Yes. But what practical difference does it make if you get the full 175 Mbps versus 136 on your Mac? Do you just want to shave a few seconds off of large file downloads? How often would that come into play. How did you manage before your internet speed was 175?
     
  19. dmk1974

    dmk1974 DA BEARS!!!

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    It doesn't 99.9% of the time. Only when I have a rare larger download. And knowing that the MoCA wire is a little slower :) But really, I'd almost rather have a wire connection to offload the wireless a bit for other users.

    Also, do the splitters make any difference in my case? At least for the ones I know I can access and change if needed.
     
  20. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    They can. You’d have to document your MoCA stats and see if they improve on upgrading the splitters. Better stats would mean improved transfer rates, however marginal, or at least more efficient transfers (less power used).

    edit: The MoCA-compatibility of the splitters matters more as you shift from MoCA 1.1 to MoCA 2.0 to bonded MoCA 2.0, as each uses a wider frequency range:

    MoCA 1.1 ... 50 MHz wide
    MoCA 2.0 ... 100 MHz wide
    bonded 2.0 ... 225 MHz wide​

    ... and/or as a higher MoCA channel is used.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2019

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