Can Cable Company Block All Digital Channels?

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by ldudek, Mar 27, 2008.

  1. ldudek

    ldudek New Member

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    Maybe I'll need to ask this question on another thread but does the S2 stream or copy recordings? I've only had D*Tivo prior and MRV,TTG wasn't allowed.
     
  2. sinanju

    sinanju Active Member

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    MRV and TTG are always a copy on all TiVo platforms.
     
  3. MichaelK

    MichaelK Active Member

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    NJ


    $59?

    you should check out ebay-

    you can get a "video stabilizer"

    for buy it now $20

    and if you feel like waiting around for an auction to end you probably can get one for a few bucks less than that.
     
  4. MichaelK

    MichaelK Active Member

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    NJ
    agreed there was probably no better way to do it when they first deployed MRV.

    But times have changed.

    So an option to allow streaming would be nice at some point to deal with this CCI mess.

    And as home networks get newer and faster streaming is less of a problem.

    When was the last time a wired home networking device that wasn't 100 speed sold? Many now come gigabit. Many things are even switched now a days.

    How many wireless B only devices are sold now a days? The vast majority are G now - right? Now N is starting to come along.

    Anecdotally my most recent laptop has gigabit wired and ABGN. Giga and N are becoming commonplace.

    Years and Years ago I seem to remember tivo showing an OTA only HD reference design at CES never was made becasue of cost. Today the cablecard AND OTA tivoHD exists for a much cheaper cost then the Series 3 started out at.

    Times change. Tivo should figure out how to follow the march in this case.
     
  5. MichaelK

    MichaelK Active Member

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    NJ

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    its been a while since I dug through the dfast agreement but I seem to recall that is totally legal.

    Tivo could probably copy but not allow viewing till the copy is complete and the original version on the other tivo was disabled.

    I forget though if you could then move it back or if only one move was permitted. The DFAST agreement at cablelabs website is the place to read up if you folks care to.
     
  6. MichaelK

    MichaelK Active Member

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    NJ
    sometimes google just makes life so easy...

    http://www.cablelabs.com/udcp/downloads/DFAST_Tech_License.pdf

    i didn't read it all again- but quick search pulls up this


    CCI 0x02 is copy once.

    so seems you could move it ONE time.

    *actually I'm not sure if the copy on the tivo is the ONE copy but since it talks about moving I assume it isn't.

    anyone care to read the whole thing and figure it out- Im too lazy now...
     
  7. m_jonis

    m_jonis Member

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    Albany, NY
    I'm assuming the same thing you in, in which case, it's too bad Tivo hasn't implemented some sort of feature to do this. But who knows.

    Given that it took so long to get the Cable Labs approval for TTG and MRV in the first place, and that a small minority of us complained about it, I have a feeling that the bulk of Tivo's customers don't care or don't desire TTG or MRV to warrant the time and effort involved in it.

    Guess I'll be keeping my DT around for quite some time to circumvent the CCI issue with TW (at least until such time that they go all digital).
     
  8. MichaelK

    MichaelK Active Member

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    NJ
    I think as more and more analog goes bye bye and more and more winds up 0x02 it's going to get to be more of an issue for tivo and so they'll need to deal with it eventually.
     
  9. TexasGrillChef

    TexasGrillChef New Member

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    I am sure one could find it cheaper, One looks hard enough they could always find it cheaper! I was giving a ball park figure! :)

    The one I saw was at Best Buy & included the cables, power adapter etc..

    TGC
     
  10. TexasGrillChef

    TexasGrillChef New Member

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    Or.... Maybe if not TiVo... Congress????

    TGC
     
  11. bicker

    bicker bUU

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    Or neither. The regulations do not require CE manufacturers to support 0x02 the way you may want them to. The regulation merely places a limit. They are welcome to do LESS than the limit. That is what they deliberately decided to do, according to the TiVo employee (I don't recall which) who addressed that issue here online when it first came up. They are under no requirement to change it, and I doubt there will be enough customers so completely upset about it to make a difference, anytime in the foreseeable future.
     
  12. MichaelK

    MichaelK Active Member

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    NJ
    good point!

    for those intereested

    the ebay flavor is unually san's cables and all- they usually use a 9 volt battery internally so no wall wart (some count that a plus or minus)..
     
  13. MichaelK

    MichaelK Active Member

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    NJ
    you dont think more and more channels are going to wind up 0x02? That is a possibility but seems less likely to me.

    If enough go 0x02 then MRV becomes MUCH less usable. People frequently parrot that Tivo makes certain design choices to keep things simple for the user. Having much of your content blocked from MRV while much is unblocked might add confusion to the end user. I think their disclaimer and web page pointer is good enough but MRV at the moment is a significant differentiator from cable company supplied DVR's. Take it away and there's one more reason to just rent from cable and some amount (who knows how many) will leave becasue of it.

    Cable DVR's are likley to get MRV of somesort, media center products have streaming which allows MRV regardless, tivo can't let themselves get too far out of that ballgame I'd think. Especially when there is a simple fix of copy like they do now but then destroy the original.

    But again just my 2 cents. And we all know you have opinions too. :)
     
  14. acvthree

    acvthree Active Member

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    Carrollton,...
    It seems to me that the cable companies would see setting all channels possible to 0x02 in their best interest.

    With the absense of any sort of consumer protection, I think we'll see most companies going in that direction.

    Verizon seems to be the exception and they seem more Tivo friendly than the other providers.

    Al
     
  15. MichaelK

    MichaelK Active Member

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    If I were a lawyer I’d argue that cable is STUPID by deciding at all what flag any channel should have. They have the ability to set their head ends just to take whatever flag the content provider has embedded in the source and then pass it down the chain. That’s what I would do. Then they have no liability. By actively making choices they take on liability. And there is NOTHING to be gained by them deciding to be the Judge and Jury as to what they should flag and what shouldn’t.

    If I was one of the big cable company’s contract guys I’d tell the content people- just flag things how you want on your end and when it gets to us we’ll be sure to pass along that flag.

    If you are HBO, why would you rely on scores of company’s and hundreds if not thousands of head end engineers to set the bits the way you want when you could do it once on your end? Why wouldn’t HBO just set the flag on the stream once when it leaves their uplink? Everyone says HBO is one of the big ones insisting on flags- if that’s the case why don’t they embed it from the get go? And then EVERY single cable plant across the US would be flagging it without any intervention. One engineer at the HBO uplink center turns on the flag for their 20 or so channels vs hundreds of engineers setting thousands of settings all over the US- seems to me by relying on hundreds/thousands of points to set the bits you are only looking for trouble.

    It makes no sense at all how this is all being done.

    But apparently cable and the content people think this current hit or miss system is best…
     
  16. bicker

    bicker bUU

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    Absolutely. Read the TiVo Home Media Features & TiVoToGo forum and you'll already see perhaps dozens of ways MRV and TTG are less valuable than they appear on the surface. Folks expecting these features to work like a virtual "long cable" between their TiVo and where they want to view their content are as likely as not to be disappointed. I would sure love for these features to be far more reliable and far more useful, but I'm not willing to pay what I believe would be necessary to make that happen.

    Who said that?
     
  17. MichaelK

    MichaelK Active Member

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    NJ
    too lazy to search- but it's used all the time as an argument why the free space indicator isn't used. It is used as an argument why you can't gave 2 OTA and 1 Cablecard tuner active.

    (I think I'm guilty myself to be sure- but i know I wasn't the first or only)
     
  18. TexasGrillChef

    TexasGrillChef New Member

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    Whoever said the industry worked smart, efficiently or logically? They don't, they never have, & probably never will. Although they would like to THINK they do!

    TGC
     
  19. bicker

    bicker bUU

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    Okay, but please don't use it as a rebuttal to anything I write. Thanks.
     
  20. MichaelK

    MichaelK Active Member

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    NJ
    I didn't intent to say YOU said it at all -sorry if it came out that way.

    I tried to narrow it down and did a google search of tivocommunity for "keep it simple" and found 256 instances but seemed much where in the contect of a debate such as "no there's no need to do it that way- keep it simple"...

    There were a couple that I saw about keeping it simple like apple or somthing .

    and I did poke through an FSI thread or 2 and didn't see anythign but didn't look at all 100 of those threads- so maybe I'm dreaming how prevelent it is.
     

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