Can a TiVo Series3/HD/XL find any digital cable channels without a card?

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by DaveLinger, Jun 15, 2009.

  1. DaveLinger

    DaveLinger New Member

    66
    0
    Dec 3, 2008

    Advertisements

    Hello,

    I ordered my TiVo HD XL a few days ago on Amazon, and it'll be arriving tomorrow. The final place for this thing is going to be at my townhouse at WVU (comcast), but for now, I'm living at my parents' house until I move in midway through July.

    So obviously when I move, I'll just get a pair of CableCARDs and have them installed and that will be that.

    But for now, it's going to be at home on Time Warner. Currently, I have the cable coming straight from the wall into my Philips HDTV. The TV was able to scan my cable and find all kinds of channels - all of the analog/basic/expanded cable channels, plus my HD channels and a few music channels - all without any CableCARD. However, I know it didn't find ALL of the channels, and the numbers are all jacked up and impossible to scroll through (119.1 is TBS HD, 119.3-121.9 are blank, 122.3 is ESPN2 HD, etc)

    Anyway, I was wondering if I hook up the TiVo now, at home, on Time Warner, with no CableCARD, will it only be able to find channels 3-80, or will it be able to scan and find some of the digital channels without a cableCARD?
     
  2. darksurtur

    darksurtur Member

    157
    0
    Jan 2, 2008
    It can scan manually after setup and find digital channels. But without a Cablecard, it won't have any guide data for those channels. You'll need to set recordings manually in that case.
     
  3. MediaLivingRoom

    MediaLivingRoom New Member

    1,233
    0
    Dec 10, 2002
    Nope, I want to do that same thing. I want to have my Cable without a CableCard. They do not need to know about my DVR box.
     
  4. DaveLinger

    DaveLinger New Member

    66
    0
    Dec 3, 2008
    Ah, okay - good enough for a month. :up:

    Thanks!

    I guess that also means that because there isn't any guide data... none of the recorded content will be copy-protected... :D
     
  5. DaveLinger

    DaveLinger New Member

    66
    0
    Dec 3, 2008

    Advertisements

    Dang, conflicting reports - I'll just have to give it a try tomorrow and see what happens. :up:
     
  6. SugarBowl

    SugarBowl Member

    874
    13
    Jan 4, 2007
    north carolina
    It will be able to tune to the QAM channels, but no guide data like stated above. You could always try plugging a cheap antenna into it, and seeing what you can get over the air. Those channels would be HD and have guide data.

    I lived on Grant Ave and Valley View Ave, but that was long before DTV.
     
  7. lessd

    lessd Well-Known Member

    7,963
    94
    Jan 23, 2005
    CT
    All you will find are the networks, and they are not copy-protected in the first place, if you spend the time you may find other open channels like HSN etc but you will not get HBO or other such channels. Your recorded programs will not have any names on them, just the time recorded. You will find the system hard to work with if your using it for more than a few programs. Also you should note that if the copy flag is set for say ch ABCD that, with cable card, comes in on say ch 119 and you scan it to ch 74-12 and it is in the clear, you will still get the copy flag on your manual recording.
     
  8. DaveLinger

    DaveLinger New Member

    66
    0
    Dec 3, 2008
    Well, the only HD channels we get on Time Warner where I live are like... ESPN/ESPN2, TBS, TNT, HD Theater, CBS, NBC, ABC, and maybe one or two others - and none of those are encrypted.
     
  9. Roderigo

    Roderigo New Member

    531
    0
    Mar 11, 2002
    Brookdale, CA
    Huh? If you don't have a cablecard, there's no way for something to be marked with the copy flag.
     
  10. bicker

    bicker bUU

    10,671
    90
    Nov 9, 2003
    Florida
    Does anyone actually ever see a copy restriction flag on a program that is broadcast unencrypted?
     
  11. DaveLinger

    DaveLinger New Member

    66
    0
    Dec 3, 2008
    Happens regularly on my dad's TiVo HD on Time Warner. Many network shows, sporting events, etc.

    I miss the days of the Series 2 where you can tell it you're recording PBS, but switch the cable box to HBO and record whatever you want for transfer to your PC. NOT that I would ever do that.

    Also: http://wwwapps.ups.com/WebTracking/...iryNumber=T&InquiryNumber1=1ZY3759X0349732572
     
  12. Airhead315

    Airhead315 New Member

    106
    0
    Jun 11, 2009
    i feel as though i should chime in here since i currently live in morgantown,wv and attend wvu! i have the tivo setup and updated and the cable guy is coming in tomorrow to install the cablecard.

    i got on the phone with a very good comcast rep who had the installer company call me. they ensured me that they have m-cards here so thats a positive note.
     
  13. Roderigo

    Roderigo New Member

    531
    0
    Mar 11, 2002
    Brookdale, CA
    Huh? This post makes no sense.

    A) If your Dad's tivo is marking unencrypted things as copy protected (and if he doesn't have cablecards, everything he can view is unencrypted), then something's really wrong with his system.

    B) On the Series2, there was no reason to tell the tivo you're recording PBS. If the cable box was adding macrovision to HBO (which they're not supposed to do), you wouldn't be able to record it, regardless of what channel the tivo thinks it was tuned to.
     
  14. DaveLinger

    DaveLinger New Member

    66
    0
    Dec 3, 2008
    A) My dad's TiVo has CableCARDs. Just because a stream isn't encrypted doesn't mean the provider wants you to be able to record it. Some HD network series are marked as copy protected.

    B) All I meant was that with a Series 2, you could tell it you're recording something not copy protected, and switch the cable box to something that IS copy protected.

    Airhead315: Where are you staying? I'm SO glad they have M-cards. In Fairmont Time Warner only has S-cards. How much are you being charged? Free for both? Paying for one? Paying for both?
     
  15. Airhead315

    Airhead315 New Member

    106
    0
    Jun 11, 2009
    Im staying in Orchard Crossings, its near the stadium.

    Dont quote me on the M-Card thing, I just specifically stated when scheduling the appointment that I need an M-Card. Then the installer called me on Friday of last week to ask if I wanted to be bumped up to Sunday instead of my scheduled Wednesday Appointment(tomorrow) I had to say no because I wasnt scheduled to recieve my tivo in the mail until Monday. I asked the tech on the phone if they had M-Cards and he said yes...so we will see.

    Also when I called last week they asked if I wanted the tech to install the next day...so they are not backlogged at all around here. However, that was before the DTV transition on friday, and when all the college students start pouring in that will change.

    I will post here tomorrow to let you know how the install went so you can either panic if it went bad, or relax if it went well. :)

    Oh I forgot to mention, in Morgantown Comcast does not charge for the first box. (whether it be a cable card, hd box etc...) Since my girlfriend wanted On Demand still I decided to have them replace my DVR with a standard HD Box and add a cable card for $2.00. So in terms of cost the first box OR cablecard is free, a CableCard in addition to that would be $2.00 and any Cable Cards past that would be an additional $1.50. I cant speak to the costs of having multiple boxes because we dont really watch TV in the bedrooms anyways.
     
  16. lessd

    lessd Well-Known Member

    7,963
    94
    Jan 23, 2005
    CT
    Are you saying that the cable co can't put the copy flag up on unencrypted channels or that they normally would not do it, and I assume the copy flag has nothing to do with cable cards or lack therein. The cable card(s) allow the remapping of all the cable system channels encrypted or not and allow you to receive the encrypted channels you are paying extra for.
     
  17. Roderigo

    Roderigo New Member

    531
    0
    Mar 11, 2002
    Brookdale, CA
    The cablecard spec says that technically it's possible to apply copy protection to unencrypted channels, but it's not recommended. I know that motorola headend equipment does not allow the cable company to put copy protection on unencrypted channels. I'm not sure about SA equipment. So, I stand by my previous statement, if there's something unencrypted that's marked with copy protection, something is drastically wrong. Since your dads tivo has cablecards, how are you determining that something is being broadcast unencrypted?

    Again, I disagree with you. If you tune your cable box to something that IS copy protected, the tivo box would not allow you to record it. A series2 tivo box has no concept that PBS is not copy protected, or that HBO is copy protected. It detects signal embedded in the video stream. If that signal is there, it acts upon it, regardless of what channel it thinks it's recording. Again, how were you determining that something was copy protected on the cable box?

    Answered above. While it's technically possible for the card to tell a cablecard host that an unencrypted channel is copy protected, it's not recommended. It's not recommend to such a state that at least some cable company equipment doesn't allow that configuration.

    This is an incorrect assumption. For digital cable, the cable card is the only thing that tells the host something is copy protected. No cablecard, and the tivo box won't mark anything copy protected. This is why it's not recommended to put copy protection on an unencrypted channel. If a consumer wants to record/copy something unencrypted & copy protected, then they could just remove the cards!

    That's certainly part of what the cable card does, but there's a lot more to the cablecard spec, including copy protection.
     
  18. bicker

    bicker bUU

    10,671
    90
    Nov 9, 2003
    Florida
    Thanks Rodrigo. I had thought that what PP was saying didn't sound normal.
     
  19. rickertk

    rickertk Not quite new Member

    1,484
    0
    Jan 23, 2002
    Suburban...
    I have seen this, but not often. Last fall, as a result of issues with a failing external hard drive, I tried to transfer as much off of my S3 to a HD Tivo as possible. There were a few recordings marked as non-transferrable, and all from my local PBS station. They were a couple of episodes of Frontline, and a single episode of Masterpiece (the last in a series of 5). For some of the Frontline episodes, I could re-record them from a different digital channel (they had originally been recorded from the HD channel, but my PBS station has multiple sub-channels all carried by my cable company) and not have the restriction. Given the random and spotty behavior, my assumption is that something was incorrectly set for a period of a few weeks at the cable company, and that it's since been resolved. I haven't seen that more recently, although I don't look that closely very often. The PBS stations are both broadcast OTA unencrypted (although I don't get very good reception at my house) and carried unencrypted on the digital cable.

    Keith
     
  20. DaveLinger

    DaveLinger New Member

    66
    0
    Dec 3, 2008
    I know that the content (which was being marked as copy protected) was unencrypted because I could watch it on my own TV, which had no cablecards or devices of any kind until yesterday. You've agreed that the cable company could add this flag to unencrypted channels,so if you agree that it's possible, why argue? Is it really hard to believe that Time Warner would add extra copy protection flags, even if it's not "recommended"?

    And perhaps a Series2 (HUMAX, in this case) won't allow you to START a recording if it "detects" the copy-protected signal (which actually may or may not be present depending on which input source you're using), but I know for a fact (because I've done it) that if you start the recording on a non-protected program and switch the input device (cable box) to a protected program, it will continue the recording with no trouble. (Even if it wouldn't allow you to START the recording on the channel you switched to) You can say I'm wrong all you want, but I've done the things I've mentioned, so it's not about opinion.
     

Share This Page

spam firewall

Advertisements