CableCard coming to an end FCC 20-124

Discussion in 'TiVo Roamio DVRs' started by paxon1, Sep 4, 2020.

  1. Sep 6, 2020 #61 of 202
    chiguy50

    chiguy50 U.S. Army (ret.)

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    The COE discount was always stipulated on a service package that includes a Comcast-supplied digital navigation device; that condition was worded to comply with the specific FCC CableCARD mandate (cf. 47CFR76.1205(b)(5)(ii)(B)(2)).

    It is true, as you say, that the newer arrangements exclude any customer-provided equipment (CPE), but there remain in force any number of legacy deals that include CPE (ours runs through May 2021). However, AIUI this new FCC ruling will allow Comcast to eliminate the COE policy altogether regardless of the terms of the customer's service.
     
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  2. Sep 6, 2020 #62 of 202
    chiguy50

    chiguy50 U.S. Army (ret.)

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    I agree that this is the most likely scenario regarding continued CableCARD support.
     
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  3. Sep 6, 2020 #63 of 202
    VicVinegar

    VicVinegar New Member

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    Can't say I'm surprised that this FCC gave the cable companies the green light to kill cable card.

    I guess it doesn't bother me too much. I am considering retiring my cable TV anyway at the end of my contract with Fios. 90% of the channels are junk. Every time I turn it on to "flip around", I usually find nothing to watch, turn it off and open up a streaming service or play a video game. I'm pretty sure the 4-5 shows we really care to DVR on the Tivo are immediately posted to a streaming service now. Not too long ago, there would be a lag behind air date and streaming.

    Since I have a "base" Roamio, I'll hook it up to an antenna and see if I can get some more use out of it and my Minis. This is why I'd never buy something like the Edge which forces you to choose cable or OTA. I've more than got my money's worth out of this equipment by not paying ridiculous Fios STB rental fees.
     
  4. Sep 6, 2020 #64 of 202
    slowbiscuit

    slowbiscuit FUBAR

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    Seriously? Do some research on what Pai has forced through, such as getting rid of net neutrality.
     
  5. Sep 6, 2020 #65 of 202
    slowbiscuit

    slowbiscuit FUBAR

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    Way more than just this latest anti-consumer decision, man. Pai is just one example of a lot of stuff to vote about.
     
  6. Sep 6, 2020 #66 of 202
    tvmaster2

    tvmaster2 Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. The last administration was pro net-neutrality, this one isn’t. My mind is made up. The most important and powerful education tool CANNOT be controlled by monopolistic corporations.
    Since net neutrality was killed, my Cox bill has increased 30%, and my cable-card prices have increased 50%. In just two years. How many people’s salaries have gone up 50%? And this is on equipment which ALREADY EXISTS, and costs the cable company NOTHING! My .02 cents.
     
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  7. Sep 6, 2020 #67 of 202
    NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I'm not surprised that the CableCARD mandate was killed at this point either. And the main reason is simply that very few consumers actually use CCs. Part of the mandate required that MSOs report to the FCC the number of CCs their customers were actively using. This new filing from the FCC says (footnote 40) that by Q1 of this year, the number of active CCs at the four largest MSOs was down to only about 456,000. I added up the total number of cable TV subs among those four providers (Comcast, Charter, Verizon, and Cox) as of mid-2020 and it came to 44,367,000. So that means that just a hair over 1% of their customers are using CCs.

    CC was just never really embraced by consumers and at this point, it's obviously dying out. The issues it was supposed to address -- allowing the consumer to use their own equipment as opposed to rented set-top boxes, as well as giving the consumer greater choice -- are now being addressed through other options that are proving far more popular with consumers. If you have cable TV from Comcast or Charter, you can use their app on your streaming device instead of using their STBs. Or if you want a different choice in terms of UI and feature set, you can get cable TV through streaming apps from AT&T TV, YouTube TV, Hulu Live, or Fubo. And keep in mind that the CC mandate was somewhat unfair in that it only ever applied to MSOs that used QAM TV transmission; meanwhile, satellite TV and managed IPTV (e.g. AT&T Uverse) providers never had to comply with a similar rule.

    CC was already dying due to changes in technology and consumer preference. I think this new action from the FCC just reflects that.
     
  8. Sep 6, 2020 #68 of 202
    JandS

    JandS Well-Known Member TCF Club

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    Because "Comcast" is actually a conglomeration of formerly independent providers with wildly varying equipment, capabilities, services, and rates, is it also true that cable card policies for each separate area, moving forward, might vary depending on their specific existing local hardware? Or is "Comcast" now bringing more localities into some big corp homogenization?
     
  9. Sep 6, 2020 #69 of 202
    brobin

    brobin Active Member

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    The only reason I stay with Comcast is because I like using my Tivo. If the Tivo is killed they'd lose me as customer since CenturyLink just installed fiber in our neighborhood and I can buy internet from them for the same or less $$.
     
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  10. Sep 6, 2020 #70 of 202
    chiguy50

    chiguy50 U.S. Army (ret.)

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    I think you are overstating the case. Through mergers and acquisitions the monolithic Comcast has acquired a patchwork of smaller MSO's, and some of the aggregate systems and service terms vary somewhat from the norm as a result, but the basic equipment inventory and overall retail procedures are pretty much uniform.

    IMHO there is no question that Comcast's corporate policy-makers have lately been striving for standardization across their entire footprint (that was one of the main driving forces behind Simple & Easy, although it has been a slow, lurching rollout in typical Comcast fashion;)). Therefore, in principal, you should expect CableCARD support uniformity (as is presently the case to the best of my knowledge). Some regions may be slower than others to adapt to a new order of business, but if the decision is made to terminate CableCARD support in one form or another (e.g., through benign neglect, as it were), I would expect all three divisions to march to the same tune.

    I would love to be able to continue using my TiVo Roamio Pro and Mini until they die of old age, but at the same time I am also looking forward to the next great technological advancement in TV viewing. For one thing, I would like to watch all of my programming in SOTA video and audio; that's not likely to happen under QAM transmission. Cable TV must compete with 4K/HDR streaming and UHD Blu-rays if it is going to keep viewers like me interested.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2020
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  11. Sep 6, 2020 #71 of 202
    mattyro7878

    mattyro7878 Well-Known Member

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    I'll break it down for you since you're having a tough time time understanding. I choose to use a Tivo to watch and record cabletv. The FCC just took that choice away from me. As of today, Comcast chooses whether I can use my Tivo. Got it??
     
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  12. Sep 6, 2020 #72 of 202
    javabird

    javabird Well-Known Member

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    I was just thinking of upgrading my package to a higher speed. But looking at the price list, I can't tell if DVR is included or not. What should I be on the lookout for? For example, some say "Includes 20 hours DVR service for primary outlet" or "Includes HD DVR service for primary outlet".
     
  13. Sep 6, 2020 #73 of 202
    Pokemon_Dad

    Pokemon_Dad Ruler of Unown UI

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    "DVR service" means a "cloud DVR" on their servers, not equipment on your end. It doesn't work exactly the same, so maybe you'll love it or maybe you'll hate it, but it's worth reading up on this before making a decision.
     
  14. Sep 6, 2020 #74 of 202
    KevTech

    KevTech Active Member

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    Most packages now say that the box is separate which means no equipment is included so no discount.

    Example:
    Annotation 2020-09-06 170328.jpg
     
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  15. Sep 6, 2020 #75 of 202
    PSU_Sudzi

    PSU_Sudzi Well-Known Member

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    You’re seriously-ing me? As in there aren’t other people who think net neutrality is a terrible idea and glad it’s gone.
     
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  16. Sep 6, 2020 #76 of 202
    mdavej

    mdavej Well-Known Member

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    Outside of ISP's. those people don't exist.
     
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  17. Sep 6, 2020 #77 of 202
    mntvjunkie

    mntvjunkie Active Member

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    In my region, when you try to switch packages, they have already been saying “this package doesn’t support cablecard”. You could challenge that by saying “you have to support this” and now you can’t.

    I doubt they will kill the existing cards, but you probably won’t be able to pair them to new devices or get a new one should it fail. There are only around 400k between all and of the major providers, so likely insignificant overall and becoming more so every day.
     
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  18. Sep 6, 2020 #78 of 202
    Narkul

    Narkul Active Member

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    Cable companies have always wanted to tie you to renting their box, so eliminating cable cards has been a long term goal of theirs. The FCC has in the past leaned a little more to the consumer, but this guy is in the cable companies pocket and could care less about your cable/internet bill and quality of service. Cable companies have historically had a poor reputation with consumers and finally have an ally in the government.

    Also, giving the cable companies the power to throttle and control digital content with the elimination of net neutrality. He's basically paving the way to allow cable companies to charge the streaming services to use their data and even charge you or throttle your services for watching too much netflix.

    If you know of a worse FCC chairman, feel free to share.
     
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  19. Sep 6, 2020 #79 of 202
    Narkul

    Narkul Active Member

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    THIS is the burning issue Tivo users need to be outraged about. Cable and Satellite companies have been out for Tivo for a long time and along comes this guy to hand them a box of nails. This is just a small drop in a swamp filled bucket as far as voting goes.
     
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  20. Sep 7, 2020 #80 of 202
    Pokemon_Dad

    Pokemon_Dad Ruler of Unown UI

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    The FCC has never exactly been a bastion of ethics, integrity, and antitrust. One of the worst examples was in 1945, when RCA and AT&T had the FCC in their pocket, and used it to put the inventor of FM Radio out of business. See The Tragic Birth of FM Radio
     
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