BRAND NEW TIVO Premiere $ 95 + FREE SHIPPING!

Discussion in 'TiVo Premiere DVRs' started by Wingershute, Nov 13, 2010.

  1. Dec 3, 2010 #321 of 387
    tcfcameron

    tcfcameron (4) 2TB TiVo HDs

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    That agreement has no clause in it that says anything about computer error and/or fraud, and what will happen if either is discovered. That was simply the PLS agreement, and nothing more.

    There are many agreements/policies that are agreed to, in the course of being a TiVo customer.

    You agree to a whole booklet of them by continuing past the beginning of guided setup, after plugging the TiVo in. Did you read all of those agreements? There's a whole separate booklet that comes with each TiVo, you agreed to everything in it, by completing guided setup.

    You agree to another by activating. You agree to yet some more in order to use some of your TiVo features.

    Nowhere, in any of it all, will you find anything that says that if their billing system malfunctions and undercharges you, that you get to have a windfall deal as a result, which TiVo can't correct.

    I already stated that I posted all the information that I was given. I know no more than that (other than TiVo often changes policies & procedures on-the-fly).

    Right now, only time and TiVo's actions (or lack thereof), can prove that the information I was given, and chose to share here, was wrong (or later reconsidered).

    I've already said it once: I'm just the messenger. I'm not one of the people who triggered the audit.
     
  2. Dec 3, 2010 #322 of 387
    lessd

    lessd Well-Known Member

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    TiVo is just trying to get you off their back by giving you this bull. (Sic OK I know that all the people that got the $199 Lifetime have to send the dishonest CSR a $25 check for going around TiVos system, when TiVo finds out there will be hell to pay)
     
  3. Dec 3, 2010 #323 of 387
    David Platt

    David Platt Mouse Master TCF Club

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    Yes, I too bought on the morning of the 13th and live in OR. I guess we were the stragglers. :)
     
  4. Dec 3, 2010 #324 of 387
    tcfcameron

    tcfcameron (4) 2TB TiVo HDs

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    Prove it. <-- These are the two words I have for anybody that just can't help, but flame-bait me. So, if I don't post a reply to future flame-bait posts, these two words are all I have to say.

    I know the difference between being fed BS in an attempt to placate me and get me off the phone, and the opposite spectrum, of professional interaction.

    I can't prove what I was told will happen, will happen (or even that it was told to me). Since when does every post on TCF require proof, or verification of facts?

    However, nobody, except TiVo, can prove or disprove my post.

    It will take time for the audit to even be known among the lower and middle level CSRs.

    What next, people posting that they called and asked about this matter, and the CSR they spoke with knew nothing of it?

    That only proves that a low-level CSR hasn't heard about it yet. Big surprise. They'll be the absolute last to know, if things work their way through the ranks in the fashion one would normally expect from TiVo.

    TCF: My daily source for entertainment and amusement, as the very people I am trying to give solid information, just can't help but mock me and throw virtual rotten tomatos at me.
     
  5. Dec 3, 2010 #325 of 387
    smbaker

    smbaker Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but aren't you also the one who posted a list of urgent information from 6ave and then removed it? and the guy who told everyone that Tivo was going to make up a 'special lifetime' that expired on transfer just for 6ave Tivos, even though CSRs are reading the lifetime policy out loud to customers? Also the guy who read the service policy in a different way than everyone else, concluding that Tivos purchased before Nov 14th did not qualify for the old terms?

    The odds of Tivo auditing lifetime purchases and deciding to charge people an additional $100 are slim to none.

    Your post is hearsay, from a person who's frequently posted hearsay that either hasn't panned out, or has proven to be his own speculations and misunderstandings mixed with rambling disconnected facts. I understand that you seem to be trying to help, but unless you can provide some hard proof such as a directly quoted email, this isn't going to hold much weight.
     
  6. Dec 3, 2010 #326 of 387
    slowbiscuit

    slowbiscuit FUBAR

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    I'm throwing tomatoes because you're posting a bunch of crap. Whether or not 3rd-party upgrades should be allowed $199 PLS is not clear to me (I can't find anything about this on tivo.com, but I didn't look hard). All I can say is that I called and said I wanted to activate Premieres as upgrade to my current lifetimed Tivo HDs, and that I heard I could do that for $199. I didn't lie about when I purchased them or from whom, but they were both purchased before the plan changed anyway. The nice lady gave me that deal for both.

    So why is this my fault (or fraud, as you seem to imply?) And on what basis is Tivo going to try and grab $200 more from me, when their supposedly trained CSR signed me up for it?

    I don't buy that you don't have anything to do with this - it's obvious that you feel screwed by Tivo and want to talk to everyone upstairs that you can to make it right. And that's fine, I might do the same. But to come here and spew this junk not knowing whether or not it would actually happen, without any proof other than hearsay, is BS.
     
  7. Dec 3, 2010 #327 of 387
    shwru980r

    shwru980r Well-Known Member

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    How can Tivo prove that a customer deceived them to get the cheaper lifetime service? The only record Tivo has is what the CSR entered in the records. The CSR could have just entered false information to make a sale. They customer will deny they ever made the false statement. Tivo would need a signed statement from the customer containing the false information for this hold up in court.

    I don't believe that the computer error excuse will hold up in court either, because the computer was a secondary source of information for the CSR. This is no different from a cash register malfunction at walmart. The item was rung up at an incorrect price and Tivo has to eat the loss.

    The highest ranking power of TiVo CS/CR that you spoke with is probably in hot water over this, and is trying to come up with some way to get the money back to save their job. The legal department is never going to allow this to be implemented.
     
  8. Dec 3, 2010 #328 of 387
    lessd

    lessd Well-Known Member

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    Every lawyer knows that one can't prove a negative; you can't prove to anybody today that the sun will come up tomorrow, you can make a good guess that it will, but you can't prove it today.
     
  9. Dec 3, 2010 #329 of 387
    tcfcameron

    tcfcameron (4) 2TB TiVo HDs

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    I was asked by management as 6thAve to post that. I was later contacted by the same person, who said that higher-management didn't like the use of the words "fight" or "fighting", in any context, as higher mgmt did not want people thinking that 6thAve and TiVo were actually "fighting". I pulled the post voluntarily, to try and keep the manager who asked me to post that information from getting into any further trouble.

    No, I stated that in the past, that TiVo had somehow applied a 'special lifetime' on TiVos won in contests. People won them, then resold them, and the new owner would find no service on the unit at all, once activated under their own account. I was simply putting it out there as something that could happen. This was some time before the new "read the lifetime agreement out-loud" procedure was implemented, which eliminated any confusion over if history might repeat itself (TiVo applying a non-standard PLS).

    Who wasn't reading the service policies and coming up with their own OPINIONS on what it may mean for the 6thAve TiVos? I actually backed out of that debate, as the legalese is best left for attorneys to translate. Everybody was reading and interpreting those policies, in their own way. I was not ONE person saying it was one way, while 'everybody else' was in agreement and harmony over one alternate interpretation.

    I would think that such a proposed action will have to clear a few departments, post audit, before such a thing can happen. It would likely have to come down to the audit results, cost analysis, and risk of alienating TiVo customers. Customer alienation can go both ways. There are those who paid $199 who will be upset if they are expected to pay $100 more. There are those who paid $299 (denied $199), who will approve of making things fair & balanced. Otherwise, they wind up feeling cheated.

    ~98% of what people post here, regarding what they are told by anybody at TiVo is hearsay. Just because some of it doesn't pan out, doesn't automatically make 'reality' make a shift and all future hearsay inadmissible and/or useless.

    "directly quoted email"? - TiVo prohibits posting of ANY TiVo-Customer emails. It's on the bottom of every one that they ever send out to anybody. You are asking me to place myself in a position to be sued. Even if I did it anyway, there would be people who would point out that it's way too easy to fake an email, and thus the content can't be validated.

    Yes, I am trying to help. Due to some special circumstances, I have easy, direct, access to management with most companies I deal with. I can't disclose what those circumstances are. I'm legally bound that I can not disclose many things. If I could disclose them, it sure would make my life much easier, especially here. Most people can only report here what they say they were told by CSRs (I don't see you calling 'hearsay' on all those posts). I sometimes can post things told to me from the top. But, sometimes I am asked not to repeat what I have been told, and I honor any such request.

    I think I covered everything properly. Can we please just wait and see what happens? Maybe I'll call my contact in a week and see if they can tell me if the plans are still on the same track, or if another direction/action has been chosen. Even then, it would still be hearsay, and more tomatos would fly...
     
  10. Dec 3, 2010 #330 of 387
    tcfcameron

    tcfcameron (4) 2TB TiVo HDs

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  11. Dec 3, 2010 #331 of 387
    tcfcameron

    tcfcameron (4) 2TB TiVo HDs

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    What's with all the talk about "court"? It's been my experience/observation that people who pepper their posts with "court", "sue", or "class-action", are usually just blowing steam. I'm not saying that you are. I'm just trying to better understand your train of thought.

    This thread has several parallel threads. In this, and those, threads, people have discussed ways to cheat TiVo, transcribed their attempts/successes in giving TiVo false information, discussed altering receipts, and other things that, if that actually did do them, would be fraud. TiVo has a right to recover any money lost over fraudulent transactions (and possibly an additional amount for "damages").

    I don't disagree that there *might* be a possibility of a CSR, or two, that may have "massaged" details to get around the hard limits on pricing. I'm quite sure that we will never hear about it, if they find that when the audit is completed.

    Unless you are from the TiVo legal department, where do you think it is a good idea to say what they will, or won't, allow? At least I talked to somebody, and then posted the information from the discussion(s).

    You are just stating opinion, as if it were fact.

    As has been pointed out by others (to myself), even if you did talk to TiVo Legal, and then repeated it here, it would be hearsay. Hearsay is really all we can have here when sharing our TiVo interactions, so I don't dismiss all of it automatically, like others may do.
     
  12. Dec 3, 2010 #332 of 387
    smbaker

    smbaker Well-Known Member

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    You're already backpedaling. To quote your previous message:

    All those 'wills' in your first post are now 'would' and 'would likely' in your second post. Tivo either told you that they will conduct and audit and that customers will be contacted, or they didn't. This is why hearsay is worthless.

    My email correspondence from 11/22/2010 concerning eligibility for lifetime from Tivo customer support has no such disclaimer. Nowhere. I'm not even sure someone can send you a letter and compel you not to share it without a nondisclosure agreement.

    This is yet another example of a generalization you have posted that has proven false. In fact, it's not even possible for you to state that 'on the bottom of every one that they ever send out to anybody' unless you are privy to every email that Tivo has ever sent. Can you not see that you are presenting statements as fact that are clearly not only not true, but facts that are impossible for you to know?

    I'm beginning to think that you are a simple troll, contacting the forum every few days to spread falsehoods.
     
  13. Dec 3, 2010 #333 of 387
    lessd

    lessd Well-Known Member

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    Back to the orignal tital/subject of this Thread, in case anyone has forgotten

    BRAND NEW TIVO Premiere $ 95 + FREE SHIPPING!

    It's now $90.30 at 6th AV with the coupon code given in the first post
     
  14. Dec 3, 2010 #334 of 387
    tcfcameron

    tcfcameron (4) 2TB TiVo HDs

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    I have had such an NDA (more of a "do not distribute the contents of this communications" notice) attached to every email I have received from TiVo for some time now. I may have an idea why, but to discuss that would violate the terms to which I am legally bound.

    This is what is attached to every email I still have from TiVo:

    "This email and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, copying, or distribution of this email (or any attachments) by others is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and permanently delete this email and any attachments. No employee or agent of TiVo Inc. is authorized to conclude any binding agreement on behalf of TiVo Inc. by email. Binding agreements with TiVo Inc. may only be made by a signed written agreement."

    I'm going to GUESS, that the TiVo personnel you corresponded with don't rank high enough, or have access to sensitive enough material, in order to require the addition of this agreement attachment.

    Yes, I realize, that technically, I went against the agreement by posting the agreement itself. Everybody wants proof from me, while just about anybody else can post conjecture, opinions, and unverifiable communication transcripts... That's what I consider BS.

    I'm now ceasing spending any more time going tit-for-tat with you. I'm sure that's no loss to you, since you have so many other battles to wage in other threads.
     
  15. Dec 3, 2010 #335 of 387
    smbaker

    smbaker Well-Known Member

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    More backpedaling. You continue to fail to understand, so I will try one last time. This is the statement you made:

    The above statement is false. Not only is it false, but it is impossible for any person given any reasonable (even generous) set of information to arrive at that conclusion. That has been a recurring theme of your posts, and it is the reason why you are finding that people in this forum are not believing you. I'm only trying to help here.

    It doesn't matter what "rank" of person sent and email, nor does it matter the how "sensitive" the information is. The statement you made included 'ANY' email, at the bottom of 'every one', that is 'ever' sent out to 'anybody'. The scope and intent of your original statement could not have been clearer.

    You are right, there is no further point in continuing this conversation.

    Everyone ought to pick up one now for spare parts. :)
     
  16. Dec 4, 2010 #336 of 387
    moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

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  17. Dec 4, 2010 #337 of 387
    slowbiscuit

    slowbiscuit FUBAR

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    All of which is just your opinion and/or hearsay, driven by your desire to spread FUD after you felt screwed and went on a tear with Tivo customer relations.

    None of it addresses what I posted, which is that I asked for and received the activations without deception on my part, and that no one so far has shown that the $199 upgrade price ONLY applies to boxes bought directly from Tivo.

    You keep harping on the possible fraud with receipt alterations etc. but no one was proposing that here, just that it was very easy to do if Tivo wanted to take a hard line on post-11/13 activations. I disclaimed more than once that I was not advocating such a thing.

    I'm sorry that you felt a need to be some sort of crusader with Tivo etc. here, but what you're posting is worthless speculation.
     
  18. Dec 4, 2010 #338 of 387
    waterchange

    waterchange Member

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  19. Dec 4, 2010 #339 of 387
    smbaker

    smbaker Well-Known Member

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    Over in the SD forum thread I was surprised at the level of fraud advocated and those who were quite frank in their admission that they committed fraud. The TCF forums, however, seem to have a better class of person. Any advocacy of fraud (rare as it is) here is usually quickly tamped down by responsible users. For someone to suggest otherwise is a mischaracterization of this forum.

    Companies are usually forward-thinking, and Tivo has demonstrated that with this whole 6ave issue. They could have taken the hard line that the units were erroneously sold and insisted that users either put up with the new terms or return them to 6ave. They didn't -- what's done is done. They deal with the Nov 13th mistake as best as possible and concentrate on tomorrow's sales not last month's. I find it hard to believe that anyone is going to bother harassing a handful of customers over a $100 difference in price.

    I received the $299 lifetime on my 6ave unit, and frankly, I don't care that other people may have received a $199 deal anymore than I care that someone may have been willing to spend more time bartering at a car dealership for a better deal on a car.

    What does surprise me is the plunge in price now down to $70. It's going to lead to some griping my customers who paid $95 just last week, and it shows that Tivo must be getting paid very little for these boxes if they can still be sold by a retailer for profit at $70. By comparison, (using THD prices) an instantcake is $39 and a 320gb preloaded hard drive is $129. From a spare parts perspective, it really makes sense for everyone to load up on $70 Tivos.
     
  20. Dec 4, 2010 #340 of 387
    lessd

    lessd Well-Known Member

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