Bolt+ with Tuning Adapter kills my Minis :(

Discussion in 'TiVo Help Center' started by invertebrae, Jan 28, 2019.

  1. invertebrae

    invertebrae New Member

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    Oct 1, 2016
    New York

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    Any help here would be great. I've not had three Spectrum Techs, and two TiVo Customer Support calls, all to no avail. As much as I love turning off, unplugging, resetting, replugging and testing network connections, what I like even more is when something works. So far, nada.

    I won't show you a diagram of how these supremely talented field techs have my house wired, but every time they leave, it is in a worse state than before they came. Instead, I'd like to show you guys a diagram of what I envision might work, based on a couple days of reading threads on this forum.

    Can you take a look and let me know if it is on point, overkill, idiotic, or close but not quite?

    Also, can you let me know some models to buy for the adapters/splitters/filters? My head starts spinning the more I click around on Amazon. And any other considerations would be amazing.

    Thanks in advance.

    …ryan moca_diagram_01.jpg
     
  2. UCLABB

    UCLABB Well-Known Member

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    May 29, 2012
    Riverside, CA
    I think this is simple. You need a coax splitter just before the TA with one out going to the TA one out going to the Bolt. Using the out on the TA kills MOCA.
     
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  3. invertebrae

    invertebrae New Member

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    Oct 1, 2016
    New York
    @UCLABB - Ah, thanks for the heads up. That makes sense since the Bolt+ is sort of the main MoCA distributor, not to muck it up.

    - Would getting a 4-way splitter instead solve that problem? Or is it better to split it closer to the TA with shorter cable runs?

    Also, if you have a sec, can you check the attached. These were the splitters and filters I was looking at.

    - Do you recommend anything different/better/alternate?

    Thanks again.

    …ryan

    moca_peripherals.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2019
  4. fcfc2

    fcfc2 Well-Known Member

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    Feb 19, 2015
    A couple thoughts, yes the splitter brand[​IMG] is very good.
    You could use a 4 way instead of the 3 way, but the 2nd MoCA filter would go on the output leg feeding the TA or better, on the input to the TA and consider putting a 75 Ohm F-type terminator on the coax output of the
    TA. The other MoCA filter, now on the 3 way input would go on the 4 way input.
    This assumes you will be using the Bolt to create the MoCA network.
    This outfit sells MoCA splitters and filters also.
    Cable and Satellite Tools - Distributor of Tools for CATV, Satellite, Home Theater, Security, Telecom
     
  5. invertebrae

    invertebrae New Member

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    Oct 1, 2016
    New York

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    @fcfc2 - Thanks for writing your thoughts. Is something like the attached what you are proposing? Sorry, I'm a visual guy, and this makes it easier!

    Thanks again.

    …ryan

    moca_diagram_01alt.jpg
     
  6. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Nov 25, 2003
    The last diagram should work, but just a couple thoughts...
    • The choice between a 4-way splitter or a 3-way with a 2-way at the DVR/TA location would usually be dependent on the available coax runs. Your flexibility seems to indicate that the additional coax run from the 4-way to the DVR/TA location isn't an issue, and so a single 4-way splitter would probably be the way to go, to minimize additional connections (and their associated losses and opportunity for human error).
    • For optimal performance, you could move the "PoE" MoCA filter from the top-level 2-way splitter down to the input of the 4-way splitter, shrinking the size of the MoCA network and improving its performance (i.e. likely maintaining the same throughput but able to maintain the connectivity using less power). I believe this downstream location is where @fcfc2 was suggesting it be installed.

      Another benefit of moving the "PoE" MoCA filter to the 4-way splitter's input is that it will isolate your MoCA network from the cable gateway, increasingly important as cable providers shift to using DOCSIS 3.1 for Internet connectivity -- since DOCSIS 3.1 and MoCA use overlapping frequencies.
    • The prophylactic MoCA filter on the Tuning Adapter's coax input is a good idea, as protection against MoCA signals interfering with the TA's operation.
    edit: p.s. Kudos on the diagrams. Super helpful.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2019
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  7. invertebrae

    invertebrae New Member

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    Oct 1, 2016
    New York
    @krkaufman - Wonderful insights. Thank you. Everything you said makes perfect sense. And yes, I have the flexibility to keep the 4-way out of the room where the box is, but it's good to know there's an alternate if I'm having issues.

    For those interested, I'll just post an updated diagram. In case anyone else runs up against a similar network and wants a visual of how these things can flow.

    Thanks again. I'm going to order the peripherals and get to work!

    …ryan

    moca_diagram_01alt2.jpg
     
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  8. OrangeCrush

    OrangeCrush Active Member

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    Feb 18, 2016
    Semi-offtopic question: what program did you use to draw your diagrams? It looks nice and I'd like to diagram some of my own home network in a similar way.
     
  9. invertebrae

    invertebrae New Member

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    Oct 1, 2016
    New York
    @OrangeCrush - I'm glad you liked my drawing. I drew it on scrap paper, where I could mess up, rework, and tighten it. Then re-drew it in Adobe Illustrator. Once it was drawn once, I could iterate it more easily.

    Hope that helps.

    ...ryan
     
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  10. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Yep, that looks like what @fcfc2 was recommending, right down to the terminator on the TA output. Good luck.
     
  11. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    (Thanks. Borrowed & tweaked your diagram for another Spectrum user, here, with a similar planned setup -- except their DVR won't be co-located with the gateway.)
     
  12. invertebrae

    invertebrae New Member

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    Oct 1, 2016
    New York
    Very cool. I like that you put the names of the items in line rather than as a legend. Better idea than mine!

    ...ryan
     
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  13. invertebrae

    invertebrae New Member

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    Oct 1, 2016
    New York
    UPDATE: I just installed everything, but ran into some unexpected problems and spent 2 hours chasing my tail until I got a setup to work. Is it perfect? I doubt it. But it worked, so I thought I would share with you where I netted out, and either get your input, or your outrage. :)

    Check the attached.

    ...ryan

    moca_diagram_02a.jpg

    moca_diagram_02b.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2019
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  14. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Re: initial attempt ... Can you elaborate on “no dice”?

    Re: current setup ... power inserter is a mystery (Is power being fed to it? Is there an amp somewhere?); SWM 8x splitter is designed for DirecTV and its MoCA band, not MoCA band D used in cable setups. How is this setup different from before you created this thread?

    It’d be interesting to see the MoCA stats reported by the TiVo boxes. (see View Network Status dialog)
     
  15. invertebrae

    invertebrae New Member

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    Oct 1, 2016
    New York
    @krkaufman - I'll get you details on the stats. I don't really know what any of the info means, although I try to pretend I'm smart enough. Are there specific lines that would be more useful than others in reporting back?

    Regarding the SWM 8x, I agree. It's weird, I had ordered the Holland 8-way, and got that in the mail instead, so worked with what I had for now, and sent a nastygram to the 3rd party Amazon fulfillment company.

    No dice meaning: Various things would happen each iteration, non of which equated to "working"… Bolt worked, no minis... Tuning adapter died, Bolt **** the bed... Bolt worked, and 1 of the 2 Mini's got signal, but couldn't hold a channel... Bolt and Mini's all worked, but internet died, then so did everything... and various shades of that frustration in-between.

    I included all the part numbers for both scenarios to see if there was some part I was missing and should replace.

    Re: The power inserter... It sits in my living room, near the TA and Bolt. It plugs into my power strip, and my thought was hey maybe I am losing signal and need to boost it to the boxes. It didn't make sense to me, but it worked as soon as I added it to the equation.

    One thing I'm fuzzy on is whether I should be using Power Pass in the splitters or not.

    ...ryan

    P.S. The two major differences from when I started: A proper MoCA splitter and two PoE filters. I'm not 100% sure this setup is solvent, so I would love to do some bandwidth/signal tests. I just need to look up more about what to look for on this forum.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2019
  16. UCLABB

    UCLABB Well-Known Member

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    I’m rather surprised it worked. I couldn’t get Moca to work using the out on the TA. But maybe that was because my boxes are clients rather than the box making Moca.
     
  17. cabincp

    cabincp New Member

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    Dec 23, 2018
    I have a nearly identical set up to your penultimate diagram and have had the same problem where the Bolt drops the channel, the screen connected to the Bolt goes black, the To Do List gets wiped out and the minis upstairs start spouting messages like “live TV is unavailable because the Bolt is using a setting that requires all tuners [false]..” or “the TiVo box is unable to display TV channels....wait a few minutes...” I could temporarily solve the problem by doing a warm restart on the Bolt. Things would be stable for a few minutes to an hour or two, then a black screen during my games and screams from the wife upstairs. This cost me about 30 minutes of the Superbowl and several NCAA hoop games I was looking forward to.

    From this thread, it looked like I needed a PoE filter on the input to the TA (which I did not have) so I ordered one a week ago. After another frustrating weekend, I was all geared up to get on the TiVo help line when they returned on Monday. In the early morning I set up a couple of simultaneous recordings, which I thought was something that triggered the problem. Lo and behold no problems. Maybe it will start tomorrow, when it is going to snow and I'll have nothing else to do but talk to TiVo. All day Tuesday and Wednesday, no problems, lots of basketball, wife is happy. Thursday PoE arrives. Do I need it? I installed it anyway. During time that the problems were occurring, I did not touch any of the hardware or connections, I only used the remotes. (On a previous post I mentioned moving some components around and losing the network for a while.) I'm happy but I sure don't know why the problem disappeared before I administered the medicine!

    [Sorry, I thought I read something in this thread about the problem of losing channels, but I found it in Shave Jacket's tome. I'm going to start a new thread. BTW, the problem came back on 2/16, but only two times and I did record 4 of 5 games. Does this S*** only happen on weekends?]
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2019

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