Best place to get a cheap S4 and keep my MSD

Discussion in 'TiVo Premiere DVRs' started by Test, Jan 5, 2012.

  1. Jan 5, 2012 #1 of 46
    Test

    Test Well-Known Member

    3,876
    55
    Dec 8, 2004
    My S3 is finally dead. I have an MSD for $9.99 a month that I would like to keep.

    Previously I was able to go out and buy a TiVo and sign up online with my MSD. I don't think that's the case anymore. I see them listed at multiple retailers (AMAZON, BEST BUY...) for $99, but with a note that a $19.99 subscription fee is required. Are my suspicions correct?
     
  2. Jan 5, 2012 #2 of 46
    JosephB

    JosephB Member

    717
    9
    Nov 19, 2010
    Atlanta, GA
    What are your suspicions? Not quite sure what you're trying to do. If you buy a new TiVo you're going to pay $14.99 for a multi-service discounted price, or, $19.99 if it's your only box. I believe the $9.99 price is for TiVos that have already fulfilled their 1 year commitment
     
  3. Jan 5, 2012 #3 of 46
    Test

    Test Well-Known Member

    3,876
    55
    Dec 8, 2004
    Ok, so I can still get the MSD, but they increased it to $14.99.

    So according to you in order to replace my S3 with an S4 it will cost me $99 + $14.99 per month for a year and then it drops to $9.99. Thanks JosephB.
     
  4. Jan 5, 2012 #4 of 46
    steve614

    steve614 what ru lookin at?

    10,722
    0
    May 1, 2006
    Dallas, TX
    Nope. The Premiere stays at $14.99 /mo, but is no longer on a commitment.
    If your S3 is your MSD qualifying box, you'd be better off letting your $9.99 Tivo become your qualifying box for $12.99, and then you can keep the Premiere at the $14.99 /mo MSD rate.
    Otherwise, in order to keep the other Tivo at the $9.99 rate, your new Premiere would have to become the qualifying box which is the full price sub at $19.99 /mo.

    Have you considered repairing the S3? It's most likely either the hard drive or the power supply.
     
  5. Jan 5, 2012 #5 of 46
    Test

    Test Well-Known Member

    3,876
    55
    Dec 8, 2004
    I thought about fixing it, at least did some googling. When I plug it in I only hear the hard drive spin, no fans or lights on it. My search found that those aren't the symptoms for a bad HDD or PS. I don't know what else I could replace on it.
     
  6. Jan 5, 2012 #6 of 46
    wmhjr

    wmhjr Guest

    1,972
    171
    Dec 1, 2007
    The increased monthly service rates for any Premiere series boxes are certainly a topic of conversation around here. I had a good friend who I had almost talked into spending the money on a Tivo but I forgot about the crazy expensive increased rates. As a new subscriber, he would be locked into a year commit, and a $19.95 rate for a single box. Plus, pay for the box plus pay for cablecard rental. He opted for a newer version with higher capacity Comcast supplied box (60hrs HD) at $15.95 with no commit. I understand why Tivo felt they had to do this but IMHO there is zero doubt that since they're increasing prices at the very same time that the providers are decreasing prices, they're fighting a losing battle and may well lose the war. This doesn't bode well for those of us heavily invested in Tivo technology.
     
  7. Jan 5, 2012 #7 of 46
    ltxi

    ltxi New Member

    349
    0
    Feb 14, 2010
    Colorado
    This topic's of real interest to me because I'm considering buying an Elite, or at least a 2TB (new,upgraded) Premiere to replace an HD. The basis for my MSD is an S1 Sony with lifetime running quietly off in a corner of the basement. I have a PXL on lifetime, a 2TB HDXL on legacy $6.95/mo MSD, and another HDXL, the one I want to replace, on $100 annual MSD.

    Anyone have an idea of happens/what rate I get if I bring my own box to the party and just change service numbers? I haven't been able to figure it out.
     
  8. Jan 5, 2012 #8 of 46
    JosephB

    JosephB Member

    717
    9
    Nov 19, 2010
    Atlanta, GA
    I think this is one reason or possibly even side effect of the MSO deals. You can get a Tivo Premiere from Charter (Dallas/FW right now, nationally soon) for $20 a month with no up front costs and no additional cable card costs.
     
  9. Jan 5, 2012 #9 of 46
    lillevig

    lillevig Cold in East Iowa

    1,778
    1
    Dec 6, 2010
    Marion, Iowa
    Suddenlink in West Texas is also renting Premieres now. I bought one anyway with lifetime because it should pay for itself in less than 3 years.
     
  10. steve614

    steve614 what ru lookin at?

    10,722
    0
    May 1, 2006
    Dallas, TX
    All flavors of the Premiere require separate activation. No TSN swaps.
    The best you can do is a new activation at the $14.99 /mo MSD rate.
     
  11. wmhjr

    wmhjr Guest

    1,972
    171
    Dec 1, 2007
    I absolutely agree. I honestly think that Tivo has a huge dependency on MSO deals at this point. I think the "new" pricing strategy is a catastrophic demonstration in business stupidity. JMHO. At the same time that everyone else is adding features and functions while reducing cost to the customer, Tivo is increasing the same cost. Doesn't make sense to me. Not exactly the way to increase subs IMHO.
     
  12. jrtroo

    jrtroo Chill- its just TV

    5,090
    317
    Feb 4, 2008
    Chicagoland
    Which cable company is reducing costs? (I assume you mean price- cost reduction without price reduction is profit growth)

    Sure, technology costs tend to reduce over time, but service costs rarely go down.
     
  13. JosephB

    JosephB Member

    717
    9
    Nov 19, 2010
    Atlanta, GA
    Well they're perfectly happy adding MSO subs at the expense of retail subscribers. They get the same amount of money.

    I don't think the MSO deals are dumb, TiVo almost went out of business until they started this course. The pricing disparity is simply because as a retail customer, there's no cable company there to subsidize the cost of the box. There are advantages to being a retail customer (access to Netflix, speedier software updates, etc) but you pay for them. It's not as bad as it could be, I remember when TiVos cost $400 + a monthly fee/commitment. $99 + $20/mo for a box you own with Netflix isn't that bad compared to $20 a month for a box you don't own and doesn't have all of the same features
     
  14. wmhjr

    wmhjr Guest

    1,972
    171
    Dec 1, 2007
    Actually, this is not even remotely true. First of all, all kinds of devices have access to netflix, etc now. Your blueray player. Game consoles. Even the TVs themselves. That is zero advantage IMHO. Second, your pricing is WAY off. Comcast boxes are $15.95/month. Verizon gives new customers a free HD DVR AND a free HD STB (which are networked to each other) for life as long as they're in the same home. Tivo charges $19.95 plus the cost of the tivo plus the monthly cablecard rental. At a minimum at is at least 50% more expensive. And if the Tivo breaks, you're responsible. If the cable DVR breaks, you get a new one - free.

    I agree that the MSO deals are not dumb - you apparently misunderstood what I said. Cablecos offering Tivos at reasonable rates would be great, and frankly that's what I would prefer to do.

    BTW, I understand that cablecos can subsidize this. That's life in the market. My point was that if you want to maintain market share in the retail vs MSO space, raising rates at this point is incredibly shortsighted.
     
  15. wmhjr

    wmhjr Guest

    1,972
    171
    Dec 1, 2007
    Comcast cable DVRs with 60hrs HD recording $15.95 vs old $19.95

    Verizon includes one free HD DVR and one free HD STB to new customes at no cost whatsoever so long as you reside in the same home.

    I would absolutely categorize those as service costs going down.
     
  16. gonzotek

    gonzotek tivo_xml developer

    2,538
    59
    Sep 24, 2004
    Outside...
    You have to subscribe to a verizon triple play package for the free lifetime dvr. If you drop triple play the dvr is no longer free.

    TiVo doesn't charge for the cablecard, the cable companies do, and usually the first one (per digitial outlet) is now free (at least it is on comcast).
     
  17. JosephB

    JosephB Member

    717
    9
    Nov 19, 2010
    Atlanta, GA
    I was referring to access to OTT services like Netflix on the TiVo. I find it's an advantage since the search is integrated with my cable and OTA sources. This isn't an objective thing, what I find is a selling point may not be for you.

    The fact that retail TiVos have Netflix and MSO-provided TiVos don't IS a fact, though.


    I was referring to MSO-provided TiVos, and I had based it on Charter's pricing (since I'm a Charter customer and have researched their trial pricing). Charter is charging $20 rental for their TiVos (not their Cisco or Motorola DVRs, I have no idea what the price is for those). That $20 includes the CableCARD and there is no $99 up front fee.

    I was discussing retail TiVo vs. MSO-provided TiVo. Non-TiVo DVRs were not factored into the discussion. I believe the original statement was regarding TiVo's focus on MSOs and not retail customers, and their retail pricing.

    That is what's happening. I don't know how much others are charging, but a Charter TiVo Premiere is $20 a month, no other fees or up front costs. Same as a retail TiVo but without the purchase fee or CableCARD fees.

    And I think you missed my point. TiVo doesn't really care if they increase their market share in retail vs. MSO. When I was pointing out MSO market share and pricing, I was referring to MSO provided TiVos. TiVo makes the same money whether you buy your TiVo from Best Buy or whether you rent it from Charter, Comcast, DirecTV, or RCN. Heck, some of those providers they make money even if you pick one of the non-TiVo DVRs.

    At any rate, now that they have deals with something like 7 or 8 of the top 10 MSOs, their focus will not necessarily be on retail, it'll be on the overall platform. I choose to be a retail customer because while it does cost more, it will always be the 'reference' with 100% of the features. MSO TiVos will always likely be limited in some way, depending on the carriers and the movie studios.
     
  18. wmhjr

    wmhjr Guest

    1,972
    171
    Dec 1, 2007
    The cablecard is not free on Verizon, and the first one is not "usually" free. Comcast has in the past had the first one free, and hopefully will continue to do so however we are hearing reports that this is changing at least in our franchise area. And it is not one free per digital outlet. It's one free on the account. I know. I had cablecards with comcast. My 1st one was free. All the rest incurred monthly rental fees.

    Yes, you do need the triple play. And? Did they used to offer a free DVR and a free HD stb with triple play? No. Is that a reduction? Yes.
     
  19. wmhjr

    wmhjr Guest

    1,972
    171
    Dec 1, 2007
    I agree that it's subjective, and that retail Tivos have netflix (though it's pretty weakly implemented). However, so do my TVs natively even without ANY box. So do my Blueray players. I find that to be no advantage whatsoever, but again, that's not objective. Suffice it to say that it's not a significant market advantage, given the obvious market conditions where other Netflix "enabled" devices show no marked sales or market penetration advantage over other products.



    Actually, I think we missed each others points. You also missed mine. I clearly agree with the Tivo move to make deals with more MSOs. I've been saying for years that it's the direction they should have gone in LONG ago. My point is for RETAIL markets, which is a very different proposition. Think about it - some MSOs will give you a Tivo, which they warranty, you never ever pay for a repair or replacement, no fuss, for $20 month. A new Tivo retail sub has to pay the up front cost, plus a commit, plus that much, plus cablecard rental. Yes, they can do lifetime which only spreads out the Tivo fees for a couple years not even including the cost of cash).

    Actually, you're also making another very large and probably false assumption. That Tivo makes the same money per unit from the MSOs as they do from retail. That just isn't likely the case. Let's face it. If the charge to the consumer is effectively the same, you'd have to assume 100% of the unit service cost was passed from Tivo through the MSO to the customer. No friggin way on this planet. It means that both hardware and service fees are (appropriately) discounted to the MSOs, so unit revenue AND unit profitability is probably FAR different per sub. Obviously you'd also have to consider the effect of system integration, and of the different support processes and obligations to clearly understand it, along with possibly a more robust and predictable sales pipeline.

    Bottom line is to be clear, I have no issue with Tivo making MSO deals, strongly support it, and wish it were available with Fios. But it's not, and there is no evidence that it's coming. For retail, I CURRENTLY choose to continue using Tivo products, but based on where the market is going, it is highly unlikely that I'll be purchasing another Tivo in the future. When these fail or when the market changes significantly, I'll probably move on. The value add is simply diminishing as compared to the alternatives, and when that happens at the very same time that Tivo is INCREASING their service fees, it is a strategy for disaster - at least in the retail space.
     
  20. JosephB

    JosephB Member

    717
    9
    Nov 19, 2010
    Atlanta, GA
    You may be charged for CableCARDs, but customers with MSO-provided boxes of any type (DVR, non-DVR) also are supposed to be charged the CableCARD fee.

    All set top boxes are supposed to have cable cards, even if they are distributed with them pre-installed/activated. Most companies roll that cost into the rental fee of the box, but if you have a TiVo w/ CableCARD, you should get a discount on your package cost which should basically be their STB rental cost minus the cost of the CableCARD. By FCC rules you shouldn't be getting ripped off, at least when compared to customers of MSO-provided boxes.
     

Share This Page