Best MoCa config

Discussion in 'TiVo Help Center' started by saunsaun, Nov 10, 2019.

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  1. jmbach

    jmbach der Neuerer

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    I have that setup. From the pole the cable goes to a two way splitter. One leg to my cable modem. The other to a POE filter attached to a powered MoCa Unity Amp with 8 legs which supplies two floors.

    The cable modem is attached to a wired router which supplies a few ethernet drops in the house as well a connected to a bonded MoCa adapter to create the MoCa network through the amp. I have two APs that have a wired backhaul to create a mesh system. One is connected via MoCa adapter and the other via direct ethernet to the router.
     
  2. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    FYI...

    The TiVo Bridge (rebranded Actiontec ECB6000) is a standard MoCA 2.0 adapter;
    the WCB3000N is MoCA 1.1

    (And the TiVo BridgePlus is a rebranded Actiontec ECB6200, so bonded MoCA 2.0.)
     
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  3. kpeters59

    kpeters59 Well-Known Member

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    The fewer coax splits, the better you'll be able to maintain adequate signal.

    If you could get everything connected at the Unity Gain Amp, then every device would have the exact same signal level (minus coax length losses). But different port-count splitters scattered about is going to leave you with wildly varying signal levels.

    But, what really matters is that there's enough Cable Signal to the Modem and TiVo and enough MoCA signal for the MoCA Devices.

    -KP
     
  4. saunsaun

    saunsaun Member

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    Is this a problem? I'm trying so hard to understand what I should do. You guys have so much knowledge and I'm doing my best to follow.

    Cable modem:
    Upstream bonded channels are 48 to 49dBmV
    Downstream bonded channels are -5.5 to -9.8dBmV

    I used to have the Bolt and 3 minis on MoCa, but with the recommended changes, now 2 of the minis are ethernet attached.

    Attached are the Bolt's numbers. If someone could confirm what I should be looking at, that would be helpful. Also, do I need to gather this information from both minis as well?
    20191210_204537.jpg
    20191210_204546.jpg
    20191210_204549.jpg
    20191210_204553.jpg
    20191210_204732.jpg
     
  5. kpeters59

    kpeters59 Well-Known Member

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    So, what's the current wiring setup?

    Your Cable Modem levels are bumping up against too low of signal levels. Eliminating a single 2-port splitter for it would increase its signal 3.5dB. More for a 'larger' splitter.

    -KP
     
  6. saunsaun

    saunsaun Member

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    This is my current setup. The only thing that is wrong with this diagram is that the TiVo Bridge is MoCa 2.0, not 1.1. 20191209_105407.jpg

    The MoCa connected TiVo on the main level:
    20191210_213207.jpg 20191210_213213.jpg 20191210_213216.jpg 20191210_213219.jpg
    What splitter do you see that I could eliminate?
     
  7. jmbach

    jmbach der Neuerer

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    Can you run a second coax cable to your office. Then you can eliminate the splitter in the office. Hook the leg from your attic amp to the MoCa adapter and the bypass leg of that amp to your modem.

    Make sure the attic amp is attached to the lowest db loss leg of that 3 wat splitter outside. Also that splitter is technically not MoCa friendly. You might want to replace that one.

    Verify that you have a POE between that outside splitter and the cableco line. Otherwise you will be supplying you neighbors with free MoCa internet.
     
  8. kpeters59

    kpeters59 Well-Known Member

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    How do you have your 3-port splitter outside connected?

    Most 3 port splitters have a single -3.5dB port and 2 -7dB ports.

    I'd expect you should have the -3.5dB going to the attic.

    What are the chances you could get 2 more coax run from the outside location to the attic location?

    -KP
     
  9. jmbach

    jmbach der Neuerer

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    Does anybody know if that Comcast xg2v2-p can be mixed with TiVos when the TiVos are connected via MoCa? Trying to do some research and it appears that it connects via MoCa to other X1 units. Just wonder if they play well together.
     
  10. kpeters59

    kpeters59 Well-Known Member

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    The Comcast X1 boxes are kind of 'bossy' and always want to be the Network Controller. Plus, the X1 boxes have their own DOCSIS Modem built-in and the 'slave' boxes will use that for internet access. The TiVo boxes could get confused. It's possible to change MoCA Channels and use Reserved IP's to make sure everything goes where it ought, but it can be frustrating to get set up.

    -KP
     
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  11. saunsaun

    saunsaun Member

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    20191111_104412.jpg It's a balanced splitter. Each port is 5.5dB.

    The box is at basement level. I would have to go up 4 stories to the attic. I've been trying to figure out a way to make that happen. No ideas so far.

    Even with that, how does the basement and the main level fit into this? They don't go thru the attic. Did you see the numbers on that main level mini? I'm not sure what I should be looking at. If it's the power numbers , they don't look good. Don't understand that, when it is direct connected to the outside splitter.

    I don't know how to figure out if that unmarked device in the box between the orange street cable and the white cable is a POE filter. It has no markings anywhere on it.

    Would like to eventually figure out if the Comcast device can work in the spare room, but not the priority. Maybe I could go from wall direct to tv and just use TV's Netflix/Amazon capabilities. Don't want to get sidetracked on that, though.
     
  12. kpeters59

    kpeters59 Well-Known Member

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    If you could get 2 runs from the attic to the outside box, you could connect them through to the 2nd floor cable and the basement cable allowing you to leave the Unity Gain Amp in the attic and eliminate nearly every splitter.

    That's just a grounding block.

    -KP
     
  13. saunsaun

    saunsaun Member

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    KP, that is a pretty genius solution actually. Except, I don't see a way to run cables inside the house from the basement to the attic. I also don't see a way to run a PVC pipe down 4 stories, attached to the outside of the house with coax cables inside.

    Annoyed that Comcast set me up this way.
     
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  14. saunsaun

    saunsaun Member

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    " Can you run a second coax cable to your office. Then you can eliminate the splitter in the office. Hook the leg from your attic amp to the MoCa adapter and the bypass leg of that amp to your modem. "

    This might be possible, but do you think I would gain much with this? Also, I didn't think you guys were sure that bypass leg was really going to help. By bypass leg, you mean the one that is labeled for VOIP?

    I don't really understand how the basement and main floor legs are in the MoCa config because they aren't even on the same leg as the MoCa bridge.
     
  15. snerd

    snerd Well-Known Member

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    You really need a MoCA PoE filter on the input of SV-3BG in the cable box. Adding a PoE filter will significantly boost the level of MoCA signals inside the house. It would also be better to replace that splitter with one that supports higher frequencies.

    I'll give an example of how the mini on the main floor communicates with the Bolt. The mini sends MoCA signals that travel up to the SV-3BG in the cable box. If you add a PoE filter, it will act as a mirror that reflects the MoCA signals back down through all the outputs of the SV-3BG. Without the PoE filter, the MoCA signals can "port hop" between the outputs of the SV-3BG, but at a much lower power level. The MoCA signals then go to the powered splitter in the attic and down to the Bolt. If this powered splitter isn't MoCA compatible, then it will weaken the MoCA signals.

    As an experiment, you could temporarily replace the powered splitter in the attic with a 2-way MoCA compatible splitter with outputs going to the office and the Bolt. If you do that and add a PoE filter in the cable box, your MoCA signals should all be significantly improved.
     
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  16. saunsaun

    saunsaun Member

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    Thank you for that explanation. I'm wondering if everyone feels sure that that is not a POE filter (see picture in previous post) in the outside cable box? Would it cause problems if it were, and I added another one next to it?

    Maybe I could try putting a POE filter and a 3 way MoCa splitter in the box outside. Are all filters the same, or is there something in particular I should look for when buying one? Also, should the 3-way MoCA splitter be balanced or unbalanced? is there anything else that I should look for when buying the MoCA splitter? MoCa 2.0, or something like that?

    Also, do you guys agree that it would be beneficial if I could run a drop from the VoIP output port on the attic powered amp directly to the cable modem? I may be able to make that happen. The powered amp in the Attic is MoCa compliant. Click here to see the specs:

    CSMAPDU5VPI

    We are painting our house in the spring and I may be able to do KP's suggestion and run more wires from the outside box to the attic at that time.

    With the current configuration, if I add a POE filter and a MoCA splitter outside, is there anywhere else that I need to put a POE filter? Should there be one in front of the cable modem?
     
  17. saunsaun

    saunsaun Member

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    I just realized something that I have not realized this whole time. The commscope model that I have does not have an M in the model number indicating moca. I finally understand why KP recommended the nine Port. It was more about it being a moca model because my current model is not. Sorry I missed that, KP!

    The link in my previous message is not to the model that I own. My model does not have the M.
     
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  18. kpeters59

    kpeters59 Well-Known Member

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    Which probably explains how you're getting any MoCA out the Input Port of your current amp...

    Just moving that amp outside and adding a MoCA filter is likely to solve your Signal Levels issues.

    You could probably find just the Power Inserter on Ebay.

    -KP
     
  19. snerd

    snerd Well-Known Member

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    There is nothing in the cable box that looks like a PoE filter. Even if there were, adding another in series would only make it a better PoE filter.

    Some PoE filters are better than others, but it isn't a big deal for this setup. These 40dB PoE are low cost and you'll have spares if you end up needing them. This 80dB PoE is a stronger filter that I recommend for OTA applications (or if you're paranoid about neighbors tapping into your MoCA network), but in a typical cable setup there isn't much difference.

    This MoCA splitter is often recommended on TCF. It is an unbalanced splitter, I would suggest connecting the lower loss -3.9dB port to the coax going to the attic. If you feel inclined to experiment, you might want to also get a 4-way Holland splitter to swap out the amplifier in the attic.

    I believe the amp is designed to accommodate uplink signals from the modem, so I don't think this matters.

    There is a potential issue with the modem if it uses frequencies that clash with MoCA. In that case, the PoE in the cable box will interfere with the modem, which would open a new can of worms.

    You would need additional PoE filters if you have Tuning Adapters, but I'm guessing you don't have any since they aren't in your diagram.
     
  20. saunsaun

    saunsaun Member

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    Nov 10, 2019
    Okay, I have the 9 port commscope splitter with inserter, a pack of POE filters, the 3 Port splitter and the 4 Port splitter in my car and plan to place the order today. Do I need to buy terminators if I don't use all of the commscope ports?

    This is the one that I'm ordering:

    Commscope CSMAPDU9VPI 9-port MoCA HomeConnect Passive VoIP Amplifier with MoCA Connectivity, unity forward/reverse, with power inserter, Faster Internet Phone Comcast Xfinity (9-port MoCA, Gray) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0779YQD38/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_4Ms8DbNC5A6P1

    I'm looking forward to seeing if things improve. Should I start with the commscope outside or inside?
     

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