Battlestar Galactica "Dirty Hands" Episode #315 2/25/2007 *spoilers*

Discussion in 'Now Playing - TV Show Talk' started by Kamakzie, Feb 25, 2007.

  1. Feb 27, 2007 #61 of 120
    TAsunder

    TAsunder Debates Ghee vs Gi

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    Weird... you say you want it dumbed down but then you say you want chess and not checkers. Either your chess opponents are dumb or your checkers opponents are incredibly brilliant. :p
     
  2. Feb 27, 2007 #62 of 120
    Church AV Guy

    Church AV Guy Active Member

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    :up: Absolutely. Your number 2 above was the very first thing that came to my mind. Let's see now, there were twelve colonies with high technology, to the point that space travel between the twelve worlds was commonplace. That should make the human population between twelve billion and sixty billion people. The Cylons attack, and now there are 40,400 people--that's about one out of 300 thousand to one out of 1.5 MILLION from before the war. I would call that a crisis. I would also call that reason to be concerned about the eventual survival of the entire race. At this point, for biodiversity if nothing else, everyone is precious.

    With technology at a sophisticated enough level to allow common space travel, why are they using shovels and mini skip loaders for fuel refinement? That process should have been much more automated many generations ago. The workers might be maintaining the equipment, but not carrying around buckets of the stuff, pouring it through floor plating.

    The only thing we really learned from this episode is that the total raw fuel supply is very, very small, and they need more of it or they'll be completely stranded.

    If all the oxygen used by the fleet was manufactured by one oxygen ship, and the workers decided to go on strike, how do you think the rest of the fleet would respond when the air started to get thin? I guess the president, and the admiral think that some things are not negotiatable. Like oxygen, the fuel is necessary to keep everyone alive.

    Baltar needs to be acquainted with the outside of an airlock.

    People with knowledge, like Tyroll, need to be training others or the fleet is doomed anyway.
     
  3. Feb 27, 2007 #63 of 120
    Rob Helmerichs

    Rob Helmerichs I am Groot! TCF Club

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    You put me in the rare position of defending BG! :D

    Yes, I'm sure their mining and refining facilities were very advanced. But they didn't have any mining and refining facilities with them when they fled the colonies. So what they have on the refining ship is just what they were able to cobble together from scratch. They were just lucky they had somebody who knew how to do it, or at least a really good guidebook...
     
  4. Feb 27, 2007 #64 of 120
    MasterCephus

    MasterCephus New Member

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    I think in this case, you have to forget economics and think about survival of the human race. You guys act like they go on strike and there is a minor problem. If there isn't enough fuel and a cylon attack happens, people die.

    The fact is that whether you agree or not, at any point a cylon attack could occur. They aren't just exploring and can take breaks when they want to.

    As far as the reporters, I don't think they were talking so much about the difference in jobs there, but the officers and the knuckleheads (or whatever name they used). Fact is that while it might not take a lot of expertise to dump a bucket over a conveyer belt, it does take quite a lot of training to fly a viper and kill cylons. To be honest, I would rather have the well trained person flying the viper rather than they having to take their rotation funneling fuel across a conveyer.
     
  5. Feb 27, 2007 #65 of 120
    Rob Helmerichs

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    And that's why the show wimped out. Instead of saying slavery is necessary under the circumstances, they pretended it isn't slavery. But it is.
     
  6. Feb 27, 2007 #66 of 120
    Crrink

    Crrink Active Member

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    I assume the refining ship was some sort of standard vehicle built specifically to refine Tylium in order to supply other ships with fuel.
    I don't recall anyone ever saying that they had to cobble together a crude, dirty, dangerous refinery because they didn't have any in the fleet - though that would have been a decent excuse for using the inside of some factory as a set rather than building one that might look more like it fit the BSG universe.

    Am I not remembering, or are we working under different assumptions?
     
  7. Feb 27, 2007 #67 of 120
    Rob Helmerichs

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    The latter. I see no reason to have refineries on ships and lots of reasons not to (we don't have oil refineries on ships to supply ocean transports), and even if there were, the odds of such a ship surviving the attack are astronomical.
     
  8. Feb 27, 2007 #68 of 120
    Jonathan_S

    Jonathan_S Well-Known Member

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    True, but the volume ratio of crude oil to refined oil products is pretty good, and the transport time isn't bad. A counter example would be old whaling ships, where the whale's fat was rendered down for oil onboard, because the fat was too bulky (and transport times were too long) to make it effective to transport the raw material ashore for processing.

    If Tylium mines were located in the systems of the 12 colonies AND the Tylium ore volume wasn't too far off from the refined Tylium volume then it makes sense to have big centralized non-mobile refineries.

    But if local (non-FTL) Tylium deposits have been exhausted, and the raw ore is 20 or 50 times bulkier than the refined Tylium fuel, then mobile mining / refinery ships might well be economical. They jump out to a system with Tylium rich asteroids, and then mine and process the ore until their tanks are full of refined Tylium fuel. Then they can jump back to a colony system and sell the fuel.
    Transporting it as unrefined bulk ore might waste too much fuel hauling the low grade stuff around through FTL jumps.

    And if Tylium mining / refinery ships were out in non-colony systems then likely some would have been missed by the Cylons. (Now the chances of them managing to meet up with the rest of the fleet is much much lower).


    Either way the refining process should be a lot more mechanized / automated.
     
  9. Feb 27, 2007 #69 of 120
    hefe

    hefe Rebus Philbin

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    But that's believable in the context of the show. Why should they call it that? What's to be gained by that? Seems it would make things worse.

    A government will always call something by the name it wants to spin it with, anyway.
     
  10. Feb 27, 2007 #70 of 120
    hefe

    hefe Rebus Philbin

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    That just comes down to serving the plot. They needed to have a dangerous and necessary job to do this story.
     
  11. Feb 27, 2007 #71 of 120
    hefe

    hefe Rebus Philbin

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    One other thing...that was the last of the "standalone" episodes this season, according to Moore. ;)
     
  12. Feb 27, 2007 #72 of 120
    vikingguy

    vikingguy New Member

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    The general idea for the episode was solid except baltar the labor leader. Is BSG now a beastmaster type show were I need to check my brain at the door? I mean come on of all people baltar the labor leader come on. What is next adama quiting to become a profesionabl boxer. If they wanted to do this they should of used tom zarak now he would of been perfect. He is a guy who loves to stir up the pot for his own advantage and has enough good will built up to pull it off. For a show that claims to be this great drama they sure expect the viewer to buy some stupid stuff. Next week looks like my least favorite type of episode a starslut centric episode.

    With a few changes this would be the type of stand alone epsisode I could enjoy time to time.
     
  13. Feb 27, 2007 #73 of 120
    Crrink

    Crrink Active Member

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    That's actually a well thought out, solid idea.
    And that's exactly why I'm going to tell you I don't think the BSG writers thought of it :D
    I think ships like the one in this episode are supposed to be the norm. I doubt we'll ever have a definitive answer, though :)
     
  14. Feb 28, 2007 #74 of 120
    rich

    rich Final answer?

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    If the Cylons really want to cripple the fleet, they do not need to take out the Galactica; they just need to take out the refinery ship.
     
  15. Feb 28, 2007 #75 of 120
    Rob Helmerichs

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    Yes, but they couldn't have done that since there wasn't a refinery ship until this week. :D
     
  16. Feb 28, 2007 #76 of 120
    TAsunder

    TAsunder Debates Ghee vs Gi

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    I thought more about this episode and think that a lot of recent episodes are written exclusively to answer single questions. In this case, it's, how do they not run out of fuel? In the algae episode it was, how do they not run out of food?

    Of course, to me anyway, the food question is a lot more logical than the fuel one. It seems a little strange to me that all the fleet ships are powered by a mysterious mineral. Maybe it's just the jump drives that require it.
     
  17. Feb 28, 2007 #77 of 120
    Rob Helmerichs

    Rob Helmerichs I am Groot! TCF Club

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    That's what they said--something like they had enough for one more jump.
     
  18. Feb 28, 2007 #78 of 120
    TAsunder

    TAsunder Debates Ghee vs Gi

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    Yeah, but then what do they do for "fuel" that isn't related to jumping?
     
  19. Feb 28, 2007 #79 of 120
    Anubys

    Anubys All About Footwork

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    Yep...Adama mentioned they have enough for 2 jumps and that was not good enough...
     
  20. Feb 28, 2007 #80 of 120
    7thton

    7thton No raindrop ever falls in the wrong place

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    Don't forget about (aboot) the Canadian accents.
     

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