Battlestar Galactica "Dirty Hands" Episode #315 2/25/2007 *spoilers*

Discussion in 'Now Playing - TV Show Talk' started by Kamakzie, Feb 25, 2007.

  1. Feb 26, 2007 #41 of 120
    GregA

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    You guys are too much. This is nothing but a tired, overused re-hashing of Karl Marx's "Communist Manifesto" (Don't believe me? Read it; I have). Opening line: "The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles." Bourgeois, Proletarians, leader was a poor kid from an abused race (in Marx's case, a Jewish German) and comes from a poverty-stricken part of the world, worked his way up but was kept from ultimate success due to his base class, blah, blah, blah...

    Man, what are they teaching you kids today in school...rap music?

    See, here's a man with something important to say. Hear him!
     
  2. Feb 26, 2007 #42 of 120
    Billyh1026

    Billyh1026 Randal Graves

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    EXACTLY...almost... Here's the thing with BSG for me. It's a show predicated on one basic thing; Cylon vs Man. There's the Cylon attack, the escape, the search for Earth, and the relentless pursuit of man by cylon. Somewhere along the line they forgot about the pursuit/run away thing and decided to make the show into some sort of social commentary.

    Oh, and while I'm at it, if I wanna watch Days of Our Lives I'll flip it to NBC...
     
  3. Feb 26, 2007 #43 of 120
    mrmike

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    BSG isn't about cylon vs. human, it's about the nature of humanity. It's about how we deal with adversity and what we dream and why we do the things we do.

    As far as the lack of a free market, I'm not sure what would be fungible that wouldn't be rationed to the military (and thus devolve into a feudal arrangement). Any ideas from the econ-101 crowd?
     
  4. Feb 26, 2007 #44 of 120
    TAsunder

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    You forgot the ellipses at the end and the "as told by a 5th grader".
     
  5. Feb 26, 2007 #45 of 120
    mrmike

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    Well, that's about the average educational level you can expect from a TV viewer in the US, isn't it?
     
  6. Feb 27, 2007 #46 of 120
    lordargent

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    Maybe she was pissed off at all of the refinery workers because of raptor that hit her ship. You know, the impact that they implied was going to happen right before the commercial break, but we never actually get to see, you know the one that made me rewind thinking I had missed something.

    /filler ep with no SFX budget. No impact, no explosion, not even an inside shot of the impact as it happened. Heck, I'm not even sure there was an impact.
     
  7. Feb 27, 2007 #47 of 120
    Anubys

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    Fairfax...
    there are no flawed economics, only flawed analysis...

    the workers are not slaves...they are not only supplying raw material, they are also receiving payment...

    they are receiving food and they are receiving protection from a warship...I doubt either of those is not valuable to the "slaves"...

    the economics works fine...they can stop working and then die of starvation or in a cylon attack when Galactica stops protecting them...
     
  8. Feb 27, 2007 #48 of 120
    Rob Helmerichs

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    Well, slaves in the ante-bellum South received food and shelter, so does that mean they were paid workers and not slaves?

    No, what made them slaves is that they were not free to leave their "jobs"...exactly like the workers in the fleet. The question that the show ultimately dodged is whether the conditions they are living under justify slavery, even as a temporary measure. But I think there can be no reasonable doubt that they are, in fact, slaves for any meaningful value of "slave."
     
  9. Feb 27, 2007 #49 of 120
    Anubys

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    Fairfax...
    all I was responding to was the argument that they were working for nothing and the economics of the relationship...they are the only people that can do a job...they were getting compensated very well for that job...they were simply negotiating for more...

    If it were painted as "you're free to go, but you go to a ship that will get no food and no protection", they would have stayed and worked...bad negotiating on the part of the president...

    but as far as supply & demand, the economy was operating perfectly...
     
  10. Feb 27, 2007 #50 of 120
    TAsunder

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    Being fed enough to survive is well compensated? Is that a joke? Go to a ship that has no food and protection? What ship is that exactly? I didn't realize adama lets that one ship get bombed by cylons. How do you even know that they ARE fed? Maybe they have to pay for their food.

    As far as supply & demand, it was working perfectly?! Huh?! Demand is high, supply is low, yet people who provide the high demand, low supplied resource have to work every day of the year, literally risk their lives, and have 12 year olds help... yeah ok, obviously that's what happens at any plant where they are "well compensated" for a resource that's in high demand and low supply...
     
  11. Feb 27, 2007 #51 of 120
    Anubys

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    Fairfax...
    my point is that compensation can take on a lot of forms...in this case, it's more of a barter economy than a "gold" economy...

    they provide a resource that is in high demand but also receive many that are equally in high demand in return...to say that they were not compensated or that the economic theories were out of whack was simply not looking at the equation in the proper context...

    no need to get worked up over it...I was simply pointing out what I perceived to be a flaw in the way the economic principles were interpreted...
     
  12. Feb 27, 2007 #52 of 120
    Rob Helmerichs

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    But I think it is significant that the discussion here is far deeper and more interesting than the one they had on the show. I just wish if they were going to raise the issue, they would deal with it in a serious manner, instead of trivializing and ultimately ignoring it.
     
  13. Feb 27, 2007 #53 of 120
    TAsunder

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    Compensation is relative, not absolute. Just because they get to eat algae doesn't mean they are well-compensated. Everyone gets the algae, and some people probably have stashes of foie gras. The 50 journalists following roslin around get to eat algae too, probably. And they get to take showers and see their families. By your logic, or so it seems to me, even people in severe poverty here in the US are well compensated since they can get free food and shelter from the government.
     
  14. Feb 27, 2007 #54 of 120
    Anubys

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    the journalists can't do what those people can do...it was addressed at the end of the ep...they recruited more people, they are training more people, they are forming a union...etc.

    all the economic principles worked...when there was a problem, supply/demand issues stabilized the situation far better than force...
     
  15. Feb 27, 2007 #55 of 120
    TAsunder

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    When did they explain that? I only recall them stereotyping people based on whether they've done physical labor. I'm pretty sure just about anyone could work in that factory and be no worse off than the kid whose arm got severed.
     
  16. Feb 27, 2007 #56 of 120
    Rob Helmerichs

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    No, they enslaved more people. They decided who was going to serve, and they took them.
     
  17. Feb 27, 2007 #57 of 120
    Anubys

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    Fairfax...
    it takes a lot of skill to grab a bucket of sand and pour it over the mesh! :rolleyes:

    :D

    look, they said you need certain skills...they instituted some sort of draft lottery where only people that have - or may have - that skill were chosen...even when the U.S. had a draft lottery, some people were exempt...

    btw: many posts say there are about 50,000 survivors...the count is down to 41,400 (or there abouts)...
     
  18. Feb 27, 2007 #58 of 120
    Crrink

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    I thought this episode was dumb.
    When your entire civilization has been murdered and the murderers are hot on your heels, with much bigger guns than you have, you shut your mouth and do your job.
    It's not like these guys were making satin pillows for the Command staff's precious heads, they were refining the single most important element to *everyone's* survival.

    Now, I do agree that Crazy Roslyn should have listened to the concerns and complaints of the Tylium refiners earlier - after all, Tylium in an important resource to her too.
    But doing things like having a labor strike under these circumstances are not only treasonous, but suicidal.
    You want to kill yourself? Go walk out the nearest airlock, but don't take me with you.

    I don't think Adama was bluffing when he threatened to execute Callie. It's too bad the Chief had to be threatened in order to do the right thing.
     
  19. Feb 27, 2007 #59 of 120
    Billyh1026

    Billyh1026 Randal Graves

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    Then I need it dumbed down to my level (i.e. cylon vs man). I'm looking for entertainment. I don't want a full-on psychological/sociological sermon. Give me a cylon vs man chess match, not man vs man checkers.
     
  20. Feb 27, 2007 #60 of 120
    doom1701

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    There's been a few episodes that were definately cylon vs. man, but most of the series has been about the human condition. Even the first episode of the regular series was like that--it wasn't about the Cylons, it was more about how the crew dealt with an unrelenting situation.
     

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