Battlestar Galactica "Dirty Hands" Episode #315 2/25/2007 *spoilers*

Discussion in 'Now Playing - TV Show Talk' started by Kamakzie, Feb 25, 2007.

  1. Feb 26, 2007 #21 of 120
    TAsunder

    TAsunder Debates Ghee vs Gi

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    Sorry but the argument "for" forced labor makes no sense in this context. Maybe I'm missing something. If humans are down to some 48,000 people left, you wouldn't want to just be losing workers left and right due to insanely unsafe working conditions, or even mental disabilities due to no time off. Child labor wouldn't be acceptable by any stretch of the imagination. Especially not with a TEACHER as president.
     
  2. Feb 26, 2007 #22 of 120
    hefe

    hefe Rebus Philbin

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    The fleet, and the human race, is in an insanely unsafe condition. These are supposed to be unimaginable circumstances. It came to a head, and they finally dealt with it, and are now working to improve conditions, but initially, the need for fuel was so basic and fundamental to survival, that they could not allow its production to be used as a bargaining chip. It was necessary to take that off the table, and do it unequivocally. Whether or not it was the right way to do it, I can see it being something that could logically happen in such a situation.
     
  3. Feb 26, 2007 #23 of 120
    TAsunder

    TAsunder Debates Ghee vs Gi

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    Rubbish. Your first line is at best a throwaway slogan based on a logical fallacy, at worst some sort of propoganda. The human race may be on the run but very few people are in danger of death just from doing their job. I find it unlikely that we are to assume that all people everywhere are working with no days off. If there is that much need for labor then any rational society would recruit more workers and reward the workers. We don't need 50 journalists following the president around, etc.

    The whole plot was set up poorly as a mirror for some pseudo-intellectual examination of history, and it didn't work. If I wanted to watch something about labor disputes and unionization, I'll rent Matewan or similar movies.
     
  4. Feb 26, 2007 #24 of 120
    Rob Helmerichs

    Rob Helmerichs I am Groot! TCF Club

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    Except of course, this being Battlestar Galactica, it didn't "come to a head"; it came completely out of the blue.

    I was also amused at the Baltar retcon--so he comes from a place that has a different accent, but he changed his accent to a Caprican accent to fit in. Only his Caprican accent is completely different from all the other Caprican accents (which are American accents, even when spoken by Irish actors). In fact, his Caprican accent is a lot closer to the one that he's trying to hide than to all the other Caprican accents...
     
  5. Feb 26, 2007 #25 of 120
    hefe

    hefe Rebus Philbin

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    BTW, in case you have forgotten, this is fiction, and liberties are often taken to make points or serve plot. You'll just have to deal with the imperfection.
     
  6. Feb 26, 2007 #26 of 120
    Jonathan_S

    Jonathan_S Well-Known Member

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    We don't need 50 journalists, but we haven't seen that many for a while.

    One of the problems with trying to just "recruit more workers" is that any new workers are untrained. The only people with the skills to train them are the existing workers. They could only make time for doing that by working longer hours or reducing their output to divert time to training.

    Neither of those might be practical.

    Also, the unload half the fleet onto New Caprica, followed by the hasty evacuation would also have screwed up any attempts to rationalize the work allocation. They'd have been in a much better position if they'd used that year break from the Cylons to do a refit, R&R, real census of skills, and set up training programs to get the fleet in better mechanical shape, get the workers spread around better, and get new people trained. But instead they wasted it trying to set up a new colony which then had to be abandoned.
     
  7. Feb 26, 2007 #27 of 120
    whitson77

    whitson77 Active Member

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    Remember back in the day when there used to be space battles...
     
  8. Feb 26, 2007 #28 of 120
    Jonathan_S

    Jonathan_S Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, those were good. Bring back the space battles.
     
  9. Feb 26, 2007 #29 of 120
    sackman

    sackman New Member

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    I have a feeling that they blew their special effects budget for the season on the New Caprica episodes.
     
  10. Feb 26, 2007 #30 of 120
    Sirius Black

    Sirius Black Grey Warden Reject

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    or perhaps they are saving up the remainder of their budget for something forthcoming.
     
  11. Feb 26, 2007 #31 of 120
    Rob Helmerichs

    Rob Helmerichs I am Groot! TCF Club

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    But that would imply planning ahead... :D
     
  12. Feb 26, 2007 #32 of 120
    mjh

    mjh Re: Member

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    I agree with this. We can call it being drafted if you want. But that just reminds me of the great rejoinder that Milton Friedman came up with when advocating elimination of the draft in the US. He was talking to a general who said that he didn't want an army of mercenaries. To which Friedman (the skilled debator) answered, "But you'd prefer an army of slaves?" In my opinion, there is no difference between conscription and slavery.

    As far as the comments that in the BSG world this is a very odd situation in which they're forced to impose conscription to survive, I would say this: it is when resources are scarce that a market is most effective. The market is the mechanism by which the relative scarcity of the resources is communicated as well as the relative importance of the product of those resources. The communication mechanism is fungible money. The situation is made even worse if you don't have a market in place to apportion the incredibly scarce resources.

    This episode is ignorant of economics. It's ignorant of how people respond to incentives and disincentives. It's ignorant of how much information is lost when you don't have a system of prices an in place. And that lost information will always lead to misery and suffering. That ignorance is a fatal flaw. The solution in the episode was more top-down resource allocation. It suggests that it might be a viable solution for the real world. That is a very dangerous suggestion.
     
  13. Feb 26, 2007 #33 of 120
    hefe

    hefe Rebus Philbin

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    You guys need to relax. Just like most of us have given up on the accuracy of technical details and laws of physics, the same applies to the laws of economics.

    The story they wanted to tell was supported by fictional details that they can adjust at their whim. It suggests nothing about the real world. It exists only in the world of Galactica. Nobody is asserting that this is a good way to do it. Only that within the framework of the story and the situation and the universe of BSG, it is possible to understand that the characters might behave this way.

    They had a story that they wanted to explore, and dedicated one episode to developing and executing it. On a sci-fi show. I think they did it rather well, considering the parameters they are working with. To take any real world lessons from it is just silly.
     
  14. Feb 26, 2007 #34 of 120
    jwjody

    jwjody Not enough room

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    That's exactly what I thought when I started watching this episode.

    And this is what I started hoping for.

    J
     
  15. Feb 26, 2007 #35 of 120
    TAsunder

    TAsunder Debates Ghee vs Gi

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    I don't mind flawed economics. What I mind is totally fabricated human stories that aren't even plausible in the world of BSG. When you combine that with totally inconsistent character writing, this episode compounds nonsense with more nonsense.

    This show is heading off the deep end. The show is best when it shows us lots of cylon activity. The cylons are interesting. Baltar is interesting. Human stories that are straight out of an after-school treatment of history are not interesting. BSG should know its limits. It is clear from this season and last that the writers are incapable of offering an interesting assessment of strictly human issues such as labor during war, etc. If each episode is going to be a stand-alone episode about some thinly veiled rehash of modern history, it's going to lose most of its audience, unless they start doing a better job of it.

    Or, put another way, I'd rather watch a doctor who episode about labor strikes than a bsg episode about labor strikes. It would probably be more intelligent about the topic. At least the weird behavior would end up being slimy aliens with weird catch phrases and not people we have seen in the last 3 seasons of a show.
     
  16. Feb 26, 2007 #36 of 120
    Billyh1026

    Billyh1026 Randal Graves

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    Almost zero special FX and character interaction in a refinery ship = an episode that they made to save $$.

    I thought this was easily the worst BSG episode so far.
    1. I don't care about the people shoveling Tylium.
    2. Why are there people shoveling Tylium anyway? Certainly, by now they've figured out a way to automate the process way beyond the early 20th century. What a joke!!
    3. Baltar and his writings make him a man of the people after selling them out? Puuuuulease
    4. These people need to quit whining, shut-up, and go to work. In case they haven't noticed, they're getting their butts handed to them on a plater by the Cylon's. AND, there's only 50,000 people in the whole friggin universe left.

    I could go on and on but I'll stop there. Sci-fi owes me almost an hour of my life back as far as I'm concerned...
     
  17. Feb 26, 2007 #37 of 120
    TAsunder

    TAsunder Debates Ghee vs Gi

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    Except... they must have blown a lot of $ on that scene with the failing raptor engine. Although they apparently saved some money by not filming the scene where the raptor actually hit the president's ship.
     
  18. Feb 26, 2007 #38 of 120
    jradford

    jradford The Jerkstore called

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    Quite possibly.
    No doubt.
    It doesn't.
    Again, I agree entirely, but, like you, I'm still watching. Most likely, I'll be watching to the bitter end. For me, this was another in a long line of frustrating episodes, but, at the very least, there is a glimmer of hope that with all this new tryllium(sp?) the fleet will have plenty of fuel for more cylon battles. Obviously, the cylon's are just giving the fleet a chance to fuel up. :D
     
  19. Feb 26, 2007 #39 of 120
    cheesesteak

    cheesesteak Meh. TCF Club

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    What happened to this show? Stop preaching at me and blow some sh*t up!

    Thank you.
     
  20. Feb 26, 2007 #40 of 120
    WinBear

    WinBear Konner Kringle

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    I thought this was a pivotal episode in setting up future conflicts between the "haves" and the "have nots" as well as setting up Baltar for his post-trial "man of the people" idiocy.

    I did think that the President knew something had to improve, but needed the situation to be tenable before negotiating. I think she did the right thing, although I was worried for a bit.

    In other news, I was surprised to see Samantha Ferris (The 4400, Supernatural) on the deck crew as Pollux. I figured the other 2 recurring roles would be enough to keep her busy.
     

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