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att/D*TV pushing TiVo again

Discussion in 'DirecTV TiVo Powered PVRs & Receivers' started by BOBCAT, Feb 14, 2017.

  1. Nick Stefanisko

    Nick Stefanisko New Member

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    So basically to do what one Tivo can do, in terms of auto recording, you need three DTV DVR equivalents (a Genie being the equivalent of two DVRs in one box) I have considered doing that, but being that I regularly have over 150 (like 154), I'd need a 4th DVR to meet my needs. No thanks, I'll stick with the one Tivo that I currently have. IF this new HS17 turns out to be a dream box with 8 tuners and an unlimited number of auto records and a massive HDD, sure I'll switch to it. But given DTV's track record, I'm not holding my breath. I've been a DTV customer since 1998, before Tivo was even available. Jumped onto the Tivo box as soon as it was available for DTV. I've seen DTV get greedier and greedier over the last decades. You used to be able to buy a DTV tuner card for a PC, you used to be able to buy TV's with DTV built in, you used to be able to buy tuners made by Samsung and Sony. My first DTV Tivo was made by Samsung. DTV is almost as bad as Apple when it comes to killing competition.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2017
  2. eddyj

    eddyj SeƱor Member TCF Club

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    Unfortunately, the only options are DIRECTV, Uverse (which is really pushing people to DTV nowadays) and the local cable company, that makes people pray that Comcast gets here, they are so bad. I clung to my TiVos as long as I could, but once the HD content was no longer playable on the HD DTV Tivo, I bit the bullet and switched. It was a sad day.
     
  3. Nick Stefanisko

    Nick Stefanisko New Member

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    I was just getting ready to go HD, when DTV switched to MP4 encoding. Rather than giving up my precious, I delayed until the promised THR-22 was released. There was no way I was going to bit my own finger off. Spent two extra years at SD waiting for it. In my area we have Charter Cable and HD isn't even offered in my neighborhood. Its been coming soon for almost 10 years.
     
  4. Bigg

    Bigg Cord Cutter

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    No large MSO (excepting the ComcasTiVo experiment that ended) has licensed TiVo in the US. RCN and ABB are decent sized, but they are nothing compared to Comcast, Charter, and Cox. They want control over their own platform, or in the cast of Cox and others, another large MSO with the same interests and business model in control of it.
     
  5. Nick Stefanisko

    Nick Stefanisko New Member

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    Mar 6, 2017
    And the Charter Tivo partnership, not that Charter is anywhere near as big as Comcast. My assertion stands that before DTV had their own brand of DVR, like back in 1999, DTV sold DirecTV branded Tivo DVRs. I have one sitting in my garage. I also have a Samsung branded Tivo DVR for DirecTV. I also have a Sony branded basic tuner for DirecTV. At one point in time, at the turn of the century, DTV allowed 3rd party manufacturers to access their data streams. The tuners and DVRs that were offered by these 3rd parties in most cases had more features than the DTV branded hardware. All of that ended when DTV switched to MP4 encoding. DTVs desire for control of the hardware is not motivated by quality control, it is purely profit margin.
     
  6. Bigg

    Bigg Cord Cutter

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    Charter is now almost as big as Comcast, as they didn't exactly inherit any great CPE from TWC/BHN. I'm not saying it's quality control, it's just plain top-down control over the end to end experience and installation, support, etc.
     
  7. ccchuck

    ccchuck Member

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    My 2 cents - we have a genie (3 minis), and 2 tivos (HD) in the house.
    We prefer the tivo interface and would luv to see the genie using it. (DTV since initial trails in MS & LA)
     
  8. Series3Sub

    Series3Sub Well-Known Member

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    DirecTV (AT&T) is under contractual obligation to promote TiVo's. This is, perhaps, the primary reason MSO's (with a few exceptions for the tiny cable cos.) and sat Cos never did business with TiVo to provide DVR's:

    TiVo's terms are the MVPD to pay almost ALL the cost of developing the DVR product, must pay ALL costs to promote the product (TiVo sets forth ways to measure that) in specific ways, and TiVo still collects part of the licensing fee per DVR, which increases the total fee a subscriber to the MVPD must pay, hence the "premium" pricing of a TiVo product, at least back then, which makes the box less competitive. Not ever subscriber is willing to pay more just for a TiVo product.

    The only reason TiVo got DirecTV to agree to develop the THR22, is that DirecTV agreed to do so ONLY if TiVo agreed by that contract not to sue DirecTV for patent infringement as it was suing EVERYBODY (including box makers such as Scinetific Atlanta, et al.) else, except Comcast (who also put out a trash TiVo product) and the few teeny weenie MSO's out there. Otherwise, we might have seen just as many TiVo's in homes as there are the competiton's, including Genie probably not in existence (Dish would have still gone its own way in-house because of the Microsoft nightmare with its DP7000/7100 of not owning the MS code and not being able to get Microsoft to fix bugs in a timely manner causing great customer dissatisfaction).

    The last time I saw an ad for TiVo on DirecTV was almost a year ago. Interesting! I guess the contract is still in force. BTW, going as far back as Mike White's trashing the then to come THR22 compared to his Genie, DTV has certainly never possesed the will to get any of its subscribers to get a DirecTV TiVo product, the THR22, and with all its best retail features not available. Too bad because it would have made a decent alternative.
     
  9. NGeorge

    NGeorge Member

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    Comcast has an interesting deal with Tivo - and I quite like it. Essentially they don't market the Tivo -- and don't offer one. But they DO have a Tivo Xfinity app which allows access to their entire On Demand library, and has a Tivo billing line which activates it -- they also drop the HD technology fee and the first CableCard is free. So Comcast is quite friendly with the Tivo, even though they don't sell it. I think they see it as another customer that would otherwise go to DirecTV or Dish -- so are OK with you not buying their own DVR -- and make it possible for you to get all of the Comcast On Demand content.

    If DirecTV or Dish wanted to, they could offer a NDS or Nagra compatible CableCard -- Tivo could allow the Bolt to see the satellite frequencies -- and you would have a satellite Tivo. The satellite companies are exempted from having to do CableCards, however -- so this never happened... but it wouldn't be that hard for Tivo to include a satellite-capable tuner in their boxes -- if the satellite companies would provide -- or were forced to provide -- a compatible CableCard -- or even just allow Tivo to also include a smart card slot in addition to a Cable Card that you could put your D* or E* card into and activate...

    As far as On Demand goes for satellite, they would just need to provide a Tivo app the way Comcast has that allows access to their libraries.

    N
     
  10. Bigg

    Bigg Cord Cutter

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    Cox actually actively marketed TiVo for a while, even though they didn't rent or sell them, you had to go buy one yourself, and they would install it with CableCard and a TA. I think competition might be part of it, but the XoD support is more of a calculated business decision in that they are forced by the government to support CableCard, so they may as well support XoD both for the competitive edge, as well as the revenue from movie rentals.

    How expensive would it get for TiVo to put in SWiM tuners *and* QAM tuners in the same box? Seems like a lot of complexity to me. DirecTV could have just made the THR22 good, and developed a derivative of Genie with TiVo, but they don't want anything to do with TiVo, so they did the absolute bare minimum.
     
  11. Johncv

    Johncv Well-Known Member

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    TiVo cannot add SWiM tuners because DirecTV/ATT will not allow it. If TiVo could build TiVo 4k box that could be use on DirecTV, no one would use the crappy Genie box.
     
  12. Bigg

    Bigg Cord Cutter

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    The conversation, as quoted above was dependent on the satellite companies being willing or forced to provide an equivalent to CableCard for satellite. Most people would still use the default, and who knows what DirecTV would say. The success would largely be based on DirecTV de-bundling the equipment cost, which they would be very unlikely to want to do. It would be a good market for a TiVo, however, since the more advanced users are mostly on DirecTV now, not cable, at least the ones who still have pay TV.
     
  13. Johncv

    Johncv Well-Known Member

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    "Since the more advanced users are mostly on DirecTV now, not cable, at least the ones who still have pay TV."

    Any evidence to back that statement?
     
  14. Bigg

    Bigg Cord Cutter

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    Pretty much every forum acknowledges that DirecTV is by far the best service out there, and that people who are in the know about home theater, video, and electronics have gravitated towards DirecTV for the HD picture quality, the channel selection, and the equipment to a certain extent (albeit not being as good as TiVo), and for the most part, the only reason that people on this forum stay on cable is TiVo.
     
  15. dmurphy

    dmurphy Home Again

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    As a guy who migrated from DirecTV to FiOS, I beg to differ. I'm thrilled with my FiOS service... and especially FiOS + TiVo. The PQ is excellent, the service is rock-solid reliable - way moreso than DirecTV ever was... and the cabling through my home is much, much simpler.

    Oh, and I'm saving over $100/mo by combining TV+Phone+Internet service too.

    So I wouldn't say that people who "are in the know" gravitate towards DirecTV..... I'd think they'd move towards fiber-to-the-home (as FiOS is) - whenever available/possible.
     
  16. lparsons21

    lparsons21 Member

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    DirecTV's big plus is their sports offering, 2nd is slightly better HDPQ than most.

    Their negatives are fairly crappy equipment with odd design choices.
     
  17. Bigg

    Bigg Cord Cutter

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    FiOS is an excellent service, but most people don't have FiOS available. DirecTV is available nationwide. DirecTV and FiOS are roughly equivalent PQ wise, but both are far better than cable. DirecTV's current SWiM wiring is pretty simple, not really any more complicated than FiOS. The big advantage for FiOS there is aggressive bundle deals, and the ability to use TiVo. When I said "people in the know use DirecTV", I meant people who don't have FiOS or Google Fiber available.
     
  18. stevel

    stevel Dumb Blond TCF Club

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    Right. The only alternative I have is Comcast, which I would not go near with a 10-mile pole. I am too far from transmitters for usable OTA, and my wife watches too many shows not available to "cord cutters". DirecTV has been fine for me for 15 years now. Not 100% peaches and cream, but miles ahead of the alternatives (and I moved to DirecTV from DISH.)
     
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