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ASK for owners with 4K TV's: are your TiVo's set to 1080p or 4K?

Discussion in 'TiVo Bolt DVR/Streamer' started by Randy No Arms, May 18, 2018.

  1. Randy No Arms

    Randy No Arms New Member

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    May 18, 2018
    Hi,

    I noticed that if I let my BOLT stay with the "auto" video output setting I get 1080p/60.

    My AVR is set to passthrough and my TV is a 4K model but my cable company has few 1080p channels: most are 720 or even 480.

    Overall, my impression of anything digital is that if you put junk in, you get junk out, and uprezing video is always a chancy thing, but that leads me to the ASK here:

    Are you pushing your BOLT to always display 4K/60 output or are you capping it to 1080p because going from 480 lines of vertical resolution to 2160 lines can never end well?

    Thanks in advance for the opinion!
     
  2. rjrsouthwest

    rjrsouthwest Active Member

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    In auto mode my Bolt sends 4k/60 to my P series Vizio 4k set.

    Even the 480i channels look really good when scaled up to 4k
     
  3. dianebrat

    dianebrat wait.. I did what? TCF Club

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    boston'ish
    OP, this would have been a great thread to have created with a poll, you may want to either add it, or create a new one with a poll and PM a Mod to delete this one.
     
  4. bfwk122

    bfwk122 A Tivo owner from the beginning.

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    I have it set to automatic and it works very well with my Samsung TV. It passes it at 2160/60 and all channels seem much clearer..
     
  5. Randy No Arms

    Randy No Arms New Member

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    May 18, 2018
    Doesn't look like there a way to add a poll via Edit. Maybe I'll make a new thread at some point.

    Thanks for sharing your data repliers! Maybe my AVR is telling TiVo that 1080p is supported but it sounds like putting in 4K/60 is the way to go.

    Thanks!
     
  6. m.s

    m.s Active Member

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    Mar 8, 2007
    Huh? 1080 isn't evenly divisible by 480, either.

    My TiVo is set to automatic, and chooses 4K60.
     
  7. JoeKustra

    JoeKustra in the other Alabama TCF Club

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    Ashland, PA...
    There's a selection menu for the various resolutions. Move your selection over the one marked Auto (recommended). Now look to the right and you will see three items. The bottom item states "Auto for your TV includes:" and under that is what your TV reports to the TiVo. I get (on a 1080p Sony) 1080i for TE3 and 1080p for TE4.
     
    Randy No Arms likes this.
  8. Randy No Arms

    Randy No Arms New Member

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    May 18, 2018
    My point being that uprez'ing from 480 to 1080 is hard enough as it's already twice as large; going to 4K is a much larger jump at over four times as large.
     
  9. Randy No Arms

    Randy No Arms New Member

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    May 18, 2018
    Thanks - I'll take a look!
     
  10. JoeKustra

    JoeKustra in the other Alabama TCF Club

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    Dec 7, 2012
    Ashland, PA...
    I have no idea why it's called "Auto". Perhaps it should labeled "I will use:".
     
  11. m.s

    m.s Active Member

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    Realistically, it's no harder at all. 1080 ->2160 is just turning every pixel into 4, which has to be done either by the TiVo before it's sent to the TV, or by the TV itself before it's placed on the screen. Otherwise, you'd have a 1/4 sized image with lots of black. It's a simple operation, doesn't take a lot of processor to do.
     
  12. aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

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    I used to run mine at 2160P but since TiVo never updated their UHD apps, and never enabled HDR, I decided to just output 720P, 1080i, and 1080P.
    And then I put my Darbee Darblet on the output of my Bolt. WHich helps with the picture quality. It can't handle higher than 1080P anyway so changing my Bolt to 1080P and lower worked to my advantage.
     
  13. tapokata

    tapokata Member

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    The set is going to scale up input resolution to match the fixed resolution of the display. The question is which device do you prefer to handle the scaling, the TV or the TiVo?. “Auto” on the TiVo has the TiVo upscale to the display resolution (the preferred resolution is reported to the TV from the TiVo). Selecting the resolution allows you to choose which resolution is passed to the TV for the TV to scale. Selecting a single resolution lower than the native display can result in scaling being applied by BOTH devices, which may create residual artifacts.

    I have the TiVo pass the HD broadcast resolutions in native resolution (1080i, 720p) and the TV upscales those to the native resolution. The only exception is 480i SD content, which is passed as 480p (the TV doesn’t accept 480i input), so in that instance the TiVo handles the de-interlacing, and the set handles the reast of the image processing and scaling.

    While it is difficult to detect any real difference in the device selection, I would rather have the TV handle the upscaling, and whenever possible to have the upscaling occur only once in the process.
     
    sstewa22 likes this.
  14. sangs

    sangs Active Member

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    I've stopped trying to figure out why my Bolt always chooses 1080p as the auto setting when literally every other 4K device I have connected (Apple TV 4K, Roku Ultra, Xbox) automatically defaults to 2160P. I've changed connections, reset video, swapped cables, you name it. Now I just don't use it to watch any 4K content, just use the streamers or LG's native apps. They all handle 4K flawlessly.
     
  15. tomhorsley

    tomhorsley Well-Known Member

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    Don't have a bolt, but some experimentation showed that the TV (LG OLED B6) syncs up to a different resolution faster than my Roamio does, so I can channel surf faster if I set the Roamio to pass along the native resolution and let the TV upscale things :).
     
  16. tapokata

    tapokata Member

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    Sacramento, CA
    My understanding is that the "auto" setting uses the EDID metadata (Extended Display Identification Data) coming from the TV. In my case, using "auto" from the Bolt sets the output to my LG to 4k, and the Bolt then scales everything to that resolution. If I chose to (for example, I wanted everything output to the set at 720p), I could select ONLY the resolution desired in the video settings menu (not selecting "Auto") and the Bolt will scale all output to that resolution, and pass it on the TV.
     
  17. fyodor

    fyodor Member

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    I hate to break it to you, if you think it's not going to end well, because that is always how it ends. Your TV's got a fixed resolution with a fixed number of pixels. It's always going to be upscaled to 2160 lines. It's just a question of whether it's upscaled by the Tivo or the TV.

    Generally, it shouldn't matter which device does the upscaling, though it's my subjective impression that the Tivo does a better job than my TV (thus I set the Tivo to upscale to 4K)

    The one caveat is this. I would set it to either auto (with all relevant resolutions enabled) or 4K but not 1080i/1080p. If you set it to 1080p your 720p content will first have to be downscaled and then upscaled so that it can be output by the Tivo at 1080p since it's not an even multiple. But if it's upscaled directly to 2160, either by the Tivo or your TV, then it doesn't have to be downscaled first (even multiple).

    (I don't know if the above downrezzing actually produces a noticeable effect-I never tested it, but in theory it should)
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2018 at 5:45 PM
  18. tapokata

    tapokata Member

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    The open variable is which device will do the scaling. The scaler chip sets used in the sets are typically developed in house. TV's from "the big three" (Sony, Samsung, LG) have the reputation of making good scalers, some of the other sets... not so much. That said, the question is if you think the TiVo will do a better job than the TV. You have the ability to try with your eyeballs- record a few programs, and then change the output resolution before playing back, and see if you notice any difference.

    I would fully concur with fyodor that in any case, you don't want to be scaling the image twice. The reprocessing leaves more artifacts, or digital "noise" - and everything, except native 4K material, has to be scaled to match the native display of your 4K set. Think of it this way: that 4K display is made up of over 8.2 million pixels; a 480 SD feed is 307.2K pixels. Only 4% of that SD image on the 4K display is "real"- the remaining 96% is created through the scaling formulas. Any time that you are partially scaling an image, and then rescaling the scaled output, can create more "noise" in the calculations.

    Either set the TiVo to 4K, and forget about it, or select the output resolutions that would normally be fed to the set (1080i, 720p, and 480i from Over The Air; or 720p, 480i from most Cable providers), and let the TiVo do the heavy lifting.
     

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