Apple DVR tomorrow... and Plasmas?

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by jmatero, Jan 9, 2006.

  1. Jan 9, 2006 #1 of 45
    jmatero

    jmatero Member

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    Yes, the rumors are flying.... but I hope this is true!..... read below......

    More details on Macworld plasmas and Mac mini
    Posted by Jason D. O'Grady @ 6:09 am

    On Friday I posted a story on the PowerPage about a possibility that Apple will introduce new 42 and 50-inch plasma displays at Macworld Expo tomorrow - with built-in in Macs. As with anything mentioned before the start of Expo you have to consider the source.

    It should also be noted that several other people were told about the stealth project too, in various pieces. Two reasonably reliable friends mentioned that Sandwich Man was indeed correct that Apple was releasing plasmas tomorrow. They confirmed the specs, prices and that the plasma Macs are based on Intel Viiv technology, going so far as offering part numbers. I'll spare you those details for now, but suffice it to say that they made a convincing case.

    A few additional details have surfaced about the new monitor/TV/Macs over the weekend. Apparently the plasmas will include Front Row 2.0 which will include Apple's brand spankin' new Digital Video Recording (DVR) software. Front Row 2.0 (with DVR) will also come bundled on the new Intel-based Mac mini. Speaking of the Mac mini it reportedly won't include an iSight camera. Just how you'd build an iSight into a Mac mini is beyond me anyway. Oh, and if you're looking for horsepower you won't be disappointed that the new Mac mini will be powered by a juicy 2.8GHz dual-core Yonah processor.

    I've heard different things about the bundled remote controls in Apple's new multimedia Macs. Apparently the Mac mini will ship with the same six-button remote control as the iMac G5 but the juicy new plasmas will ship with a new multimedia remote control (which it patented in April 2002) with a built-in LCD display that will give the Harmony 880 from Logitech a run for its money.

    There's also some speculation that Apple's new multimedia Macs could have something to do with Apple's recent Vingle patent for "electronic transmission of streamed and downloadable audio and video files via computer and other communications networks."

    I guess that we'll find out for sure tomorrow at 9am PST.


    http://blogs.zdnet.com/Apple/?p=68
     
  2. Jan 9, 2006 #2 of 45
    TiVoPhish

    TiVoPhish New Member

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    Any idea if there is video coverage being provided anywhere? Would love to see a stream of the keynote... though I figure it'll be offered by podcast later...
     
  3. Jan 9, 2006 #3 of 45
    Bierboy

    Bierboy Seasoned gas passer

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    Doesn't Apple usually stream Steve's address? I seem to recall watching previous keynotes by him.
     
  4. Jan 9, 2006 #4 of 45
    pkscout

    pkscout Well-Known Member

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    There will be an archive of the keynote, but no streaming live or even satellite link from AppleStores (we used to tune to the satellite feed here at work). If you're not there, you are apparently square.
     
  5. Jan 9, 2006 #5 of 45
    TiVoPhish

    TiVoPhish New Member

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    LOL -- I'd love to be there... would have loved to be at CES too... but alas, can't take the time off from work to travel out there :( boo hoo!

    ;)

    Thanks.. I'm going to look for podcasts too... there were a LOT of CES postcasts each day and it was a good way to stay in touch, even if not live.
     
  6. Jan 9, 2006 #6 of 45
    Justin Thyme

    Justin Thyme Contra sceleris

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    If they don't come out with a large white HDTV flat screen for the living room running OSX on an Intel chip I'd be very surprized.

    I'd also be surprised if Intel is not up on stage with steve announcing it will run on Intel's Viiv Platform, which previously has required MCE to run.

    The main question is whether Apple will lock out other DRMs from these products as with the iPod, in order to guarantee iTunes as the only source of protected content.

    My bet is no one will even report on the DRM lockout strategy.
     
  7. Jan 9, 2006 #7 of 45
    Oknarf

    Oknarf New Member

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    This should be very interesting. I read the same report on ZDNet today and am curious to learn more. Much more.

    :D :up:

    Do you think they will be showing a prototype with a vague "more news later in 2006 on when and if this product will be available"?

    :rolleyes:
     
  8. Jan 9, 2006 #8 of 45
    jsmeeker

    jsmeeker Notable Member TCF Club

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    and if you ARE there.....

    WOOO HOOO!!!! :D :D
     
  9. Jan 9, 2006 #9 of 45
    ChuckyBox

    ChuckyBox New Member

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    Don't know. How long did we wait for OSX after they announced it?

    Still, like many other Mac users, I'm eager to buy an "Insanely Expensive"(TM) Apple TV with a soon-to-be-obsolete computer built in to it. :D
     
  10. Oknarf

    Oknarf New Member

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    Drive upgrades could be more problematic than a separate box but 42" and 50" plasmas aren't insanely expensive. They've some down significantly, and will continue to.

    I'm no Mac user, not that you said I was, but I'm still curious.
     
  11. Justin Thyme

    Justin Thyme Contra sceleris

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    How many TV's do you have that are over 6 years old? Is your old set useable or does it go in the closet so you can buy a new one?

    How many computers do you have that are over 6 years old? Are they usable or did it go in the closet 2 years ago so you could buy a new one.

    WoooHOOO am I excited about dropping more than a grand for a TV that will have to be replaced in 4 years.

    But maybe the cpu is plugable. Kind of like the novel idea of replacable batteries in the iPod.
     
  12. TiVoPhish

    TiVoPhish New Member

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    To answer your innocent questions:

    One in my office is about 12 years old, still working, still used (to watch TV)
    Another in my office is about 5 years old, still working, still used (to monitor video while editing)
    One in my living room is about 7 years old. Still working, stilled watched by my daughter every day.
    One in my stepson's room... about 7 years old. Still working, used for playing video games exclusively.
    One in my bedroom... bought in 2001. HD. Still working. Still used every day to watch TV.
    One in the garage - broken.
    One WAS in the garage. 15 or more years old. Still working. Sold at garage sale last summer for $10! LOL :D

    Current PC and Mac are about 2 years old. Mac mini is brand new (daughters).
    Last generation PC is about 5 years old, Mac about 7. Mac is still used in my husbands recording studio. PC is intermittendly used from time to time (still runs and works fine... a bit pokey).
    iMac I just disconnected from daughters room was 5-6 years old and still working great for her needs (which were simple... mostly word processing). Still have it sitting here. Will probably donate it to someone who can't afford a computer.
    Two new laptops... but an OLD one... man, back to 1998 or 99 I think.... just booted it up the other day. My cousin wants it for work processing and taking notes at college. Maybe internet.
    One Gateway P5-100 (with MMX upgrade woo hoo) still working. Never ever ever used. Plans are to pack it up when we redo that room ;) -- it's older than my daughter (got it 2 days before she was born... she's 12).

    Depends on the equipment. Not everything is something you'll replace in 4 years. The better the quality, the less likely you'll need to replace it. Depending on if it's still performing it's desired functions well will dictate whether you decide you need a new one.

    Macs tend to have longer life cycles than PCs. Also, theoretically, it's main function would be as a HMC, so as long as it's still performing and performing well, why would you replace it?

    My mother has my TiVo Series 1 now and it still works great for her. Despite it's age, she has no desire or need to replace it because it's working great.

    You argument is reasonable though, and definitely something to consider. Just don't know that I view it as the same down-side you're insinuating.

    (ps... there are often CPU kits available for many types of Macs, so upgrading isn't necessarily out of the question).
     
  13. Atomike

    Atomike New Member

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    You just described your Tivo.
     
  14. Kanyon71

    Kanyon71 New Member

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    My main TV is a model year 2001 (can't remember exact manu date) Sony Grand Wega 36" CRT that cost me over $2000 so that will be in use until the day it dies and can't be repaired, then again it still has a picture superior to many other TVs that are out now. The TV in my living room is a 27" thats about 5 years old and works fine and wont be replaced for a while. I am in the market for a new HD set at some point, it will probably replace my Wega set as my main TV, but I don't know what I want.

    Now as for PC's dang not sure I have enough time to list what I have and how old, lets just suffice it to say that I still have a Micron PII 300 that has 98 running on it that gets used to test software and for the little one to visit nick . com on. I have a bunch of pc's of various ages and speeds that are here and get used.

    I am always excited about replacing my electronics :) now if only my bank account was happy about it.
     
  15. TiVoPhish

    TiVoPhish New Member

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    Similar story here Kanyon. I bought my HD in 2001 and it's an amazing picture (Samsung 30").... and 27" in the living room. Plan to move the Samsung to the living room and get a nice 42 or 50" to hang on the bedroom wall -- but gotta save pennies first :)
     
  16. Justin Thyme

    Justin Thyme Contra sceleris

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    No. As Phish pointed out about the mac doing the sound studio application. It was what- 7 years old. Who cares that it can't do video- what it is doing it does just as well now as it did 7 years ago. The key point is sufficiency.

    Is a Tivo S2 the ultimate hardware platform you could imagine? Certainly not. Does it have sufficient display capability for a 30 inch standard definition television? You bet. 10 years from now you are going to see s2 boxes still chugging along like old refrigerators and televisions- not thrown away or replaced because it is sufficient.

    Sure Phish's husband could get a new mac that could run the latest multitrack mixing application. But his setup now does all he needs it to do and there is no huge advantage to compell him to spend $1500 for a new Mac.

    I am not poo pooing everything about Apple's entry- I think even if I am wrong and the new product for the living room is only an Intel Mini- it will help grow the mass market for internet delivered content from major providers. That is all goodness.

    Also, I think the Viiv announcement (well I hope they will use Viiv) will be cool because of the implications of the shift- that isn't earth shaking- but still significant- that you can get intel solutions without going to you know who. Intel will really have me excited when they deliver linux Viiv solutions- not that I think Tivo will jump to Intel real soon now- just that other CE manufacturers will be able to make boxes without crawling to Apple or Microsloth.

    Will it have cablecard support- probably not. But maybe if we are lucky it will have something besides iTms. It would be cool if they supported DVR recordings via DTV-Link. This uses DTCP protocol that as I understand is part of Viiv for handling the security. That would be a little bit better than cablecard in some respects- you might be able to record some VOD that way- provided that the DTCP permissions were set to allow it.

    But only if they have at least that, I don't think you can really call it a viable DVR as the title of this thread suggests. Analog encoding is going to look crappy on such large screens, so I just can't see Jobs doing it.

    It will be interesting.
     
  17. TiVoPhish

    TiVoPhish New Member

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    It was doing video right until the day it moved into the Studio. No, not as fast as the G5, but it was doing it reasonably well. These days the studio is primarily used for film scoring, and Reason runs like a champ on that machine.

    $1500 is a little modest. Going to the latest multitrack setup cost a lot more than $1500 and it isn't the computer that costs so darn much. If you're going to do it right you're going to pay $10,000... that's why we're doing it slow.

    My husband close friend is running Pro Tools on a G4. Machine has got to be 4 years old. It runs great. He's buying a second computer as a backup, and he's buying a used G4. He's GOT the $10-$15,000 invested already.

    iRecord is doing HD recording off Mac's already, so it's not all that unlikely. Rumors are including HDTV-Tuner enabled LCD displays. Also Read This. TVMini HD is already allowing pausing, recording, etc. of HD content via a Mac. Front Row is the 10ft interface to control it all.

    It could absolutely be we don't see an Apple DVR announced this week... but if they announce this Plasma TV (and that's still a rumor until tomorrow morning), I think the DVR portion is inevitable... and will be an important part to the HMC experience. The technology backend and front end are there (albeit, in pieces right now), but it's easy to see how it could all come together.

    I agree it will be interesting. I wish I could be there!
     
  18. ChuckyBox

    ChuckyBox New Member

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    As a long time Mac user, the one thing I can guarantee is that if Apple makes a 50" plasma TV, it will cost more than anybody else's.

    Me too. Whatever they come up with, it is likely to be slick. Expensive, but slick.
     
  19. ChuckyBox

    ChuckyBox New Member

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    Maybe, but my TiVo cost $200 and I've been using it for three years. When (or "if" if you listen to Oknarf) the Series 3 comes out, I'll buy that puppy, hook it up to my TV and take advantage of all the new features TiVo is developing. If it were built in, as the interface to my TV, that upgrade would be a little more problematic.

    I think that was the point Justin was making -- TVs last a lot longer than computers. I don't like the idea of integrating the two. But it might be a good solution for some people.
     
  20. Justin Thyme

    Justin Thyme Contra sceleris

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    If it is a computer, and I want to run the latest and greatest game, or whizzy thing downloaded from the net, want to run the latest OS from apple, the CPU runs out of juice long before your expectation of how long a TV should last.

    If it is a DVR, and I expect it to play videos at the resolution that the display is capable of? Well that is a constant. It is as good in 2015 at doing what it did in 2006. That's why I think you can stick a DVR in a flat panel (eg a TGC Tivo in a PRC built flat panel), but not a CPU- sure they will rave over it at first, but not after too long the novelty is gone and they own last years model, then the 2 year old OS, and the latest wizzy thing is running kind of noticeably slugging on the old big screen. The customers starts feeling like their once uber cool product pooped out before they got their money's worth.

    Integrated HD DVDs, DVRs- well heck yes- these things have a sufficiency for the device, and does not define itself in terms of perishable definitions of what's hot. Of course you want to identify yourself with the latest and greatest if you want to sell lots of hardware. And that after all is what CES is about. But that is not what Tivo is after.

    Strategies for hurrying along obsolescence as much as possible is death if hardware is a cost, and you make money on something else. Tivo wants to see stable, sufficient products that are inexpensive and maintain their resale value. Note that this is quite contrary to the goals of typical CE company product lines.

    Where is the point of sufficiency? The viewing market is not a monolith, and it means different things to different segments, but when you reach it, you reach hardware stability, and we expect them to last like refrigerators, TVs, or calculators. Maybe for a lot of people, when a calculator got to the size and heft the first PDA's, with + - / * % M+ functions, they were done. And a 20 year old version of that is just as good. An S2 integrated into a 25" set- Heck- could be good for 15, 20 years, minus a few hard drives, and running system 27.1- lovingly upgraded by the mothership to keep those sub fees rolling in.

    Most of us live in the digital world, but over half live in analog. And half of them still actually use antennas. They are happy with what they have.

    Of course the whiners... er the early adopters for whom the high end of course will always keep moving. 1080p is already obsolete according to CES2006. No way? Well dig this- would you blow up a 2 megapixel photo to 50 inches diagonal? Heck no- the biggest you want to go with that is 4x6 inches- yet 2megapixels is all 1080p is. blown up to 50 inch diagonal screen- that's 43 dots per inch. Bad faxes are 76dpi for cripesake.

    It ends somewhere, yeah- A decent photo is around 300dpi. Beyond that is a point of diminishing return. But we are a ways from that, because for it, you'd need like 95 megapixels for that 50 inch screen. That's almost 2 orders of magnitude from where we are now, and the barely adequate DVR akin to a 40GB Tivo will need 4TB.

    This year's CES's densest display was a 50 inch from Westinghouse. At just 8 megapixels, it is 4x 1080p. It is to 1080p what HD was to SD.

    So they let this HD thing saturate- I dunno how long until everyone has blueray and are not buying HDTV sets anymore? 8 years? Ok. If you figure each generation need minimum 4x improvement for wow factor, they you have 2MbHD, 8MbHD, 32MbHD, 128MbHDTV [sufficiency].

    Jeez. at 8 years a generation, we are talking 32 years. That is one heck of a lot of flat screens on the rubbish pile.

    But many folks simply will be stranglers/ not see the point of wasting the money/ guffaw at the resolution- what the heck is the point of 2160p? 1080p looks good enough to me? really? I can' believe you aren't just blown away.... Are you blind? etc etc. Well fine. The stranglers is where over 50 percent of the market is today, in the analog world displaying signals that are sub SD- about vhs quality. For them, the S2 is very high res.

    The S3 can chase the higher end, but not too close. Let Microsoft and Apple duke it out for bragging rights to the ultimate. Let the obsolescent strategy products feel long in the tooth after just a few years because the CPU is not up to the software tasks anymore. Alternatively, you go into someone's home with an inexpensively manufactured Chinese flatscreen, but the brand says Tivo, and the splash screen looks just like every other Tivo owner's. You are in the family, not a little behind the times because you don't have the latest and greatest. That is the key difference between the Apple and Tivo markets.

    Meanwhile Tivo will be picking up the regular joes who put 0$ down and $16.95 per month. Just 9 month commitment. And retaining them.
     

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