Anyone tried Youtube Tv and can compare it to Tivo?

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by omelet1978, Mar 18, 2019.

  1. Jeeters

    Jeeters Registered Snoozer

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    Ars Technica has been posting occasional articles on AT&T's streaming services debacle, including this most recent one from a few days ago.

    AT&T kills off the failed TV service formerly known as DirecTV Now
     
  2. lparsons21

    lparsons21 Well-Known Member

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    You are reading the number wrong, which is easy enough to do.

    ATT TV Now lost subs, that’s a fact and has been reported.

    ATT TV is included with DirecTV and U-Verse in a lump called ‘Premium TV’. That lump lost subs, but there is no breakout deeper than that. Some assumptions have been made because DirecTV alone was shedding subs so quickly, but they are just assumptions based on no actual facts.
     
  3. trip1eX

    trip1eX imo, afaik, feels like to me, *exceptions, ~aprox

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    Well ok I don't know what differences the name change brings. Maybe they have a whole new back end. Maybe a whole new app. They seemed to have slightly adjusted the package/price. I don't think you know either btw regarding the first two items.

    But I'm not seeing this move advertised as "newer and better" so I think it is just a name change. I don't even think the ATT TV service was much more than ATT TV Now wrapped up in a 2 yr contract.

    So you're mucking up the waters here with irrelevant points.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2021
  4. trip1eX

    trip1eX imo, afaik, feels like to me, *exceptions, ~aprox

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    I'm not reading the numbers wrong. YOu are reading my post wrong. IT's clear I am talking about the service formerly known as ATT TV Now because I said as much.

    That was the competitor to all these other cable OTT services.

    It's now called ATT TV. Is it more than just a name change? Well I'm not sure about that one despite what you say. I haven't seen anything in articles that explains why this new service is so much better than ATT TV Now. So it smells like a name change to me.

    And even if it meets some definition of a new service. The pt remains. The no contract service ATT offered previously has been losing subscribers. And there is nothing about the new one or the one with the new name that I can see that will change that. Starting over from zero isn't a good argument for future success either.

    also from what I can see the 2 yr contract ATT TV service has gone nowhere. Companies tend to not break out numbers when they aren't favorable.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2021
  5. lparsons21

    lparsons21 Well-Known Member

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    I wanted to address that last sentence separately. Actually marketing is the biggest reason that they have lost customers across the board. While we don’t know how well or poorly the ATT TV part of it has done, U-Verse and DirecTV have lost substantial numbers before ATT TV was a product.

    Beyond marketing, the other driving factor in slowing growth is the fact that they had so many offerings. Confusion is the best way to describe it. It confuses the consumer and when you talk to AT&T CSR’s and sales reps you find out they are just as confused.

    Start with 3 streaming products at one point. AT&T Watch TV, TV Now and TV. Each had their own subscription levels and other features as well as a price difference.

    Add in that they really didn’t market DirecTV much at all, Watch TV came and went and then came back again and ATT TV had the contract. What a mish-mash of products all starting with AT&T!

    I was an early negative poster about AT&T’s streaming offerings. It was and still is a bit of a mess, their pricing was screwy and that contract just made no sense. The contract still doesn’t make sense if you do some numbers. Even the current ATT TV non-contract is a bit higher in cost though it does bring some features that others don’t have while also missing some things others do have. And that means that the live streaming market is still in flux, going to be interesting going forward.

    A bit off topic, but if I could make myself no care about sports at all I could save significant money. The live streaming services make streaming overall more expensive. I noticed in my DVR I only have OTA recordings and some sports. Nothing else.
     
  6. lparsons21

    lparsons21 Well-Known Member

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    While I don’t have any numbers to back me up, I am seeing lots of posts about Fox/Sinclair RSNs since more sports are lighting up these days. And every one of those posts point to AT&T TV Choice subscription level since it is the least costly way to get them these days.

    Going to be interesting to see how much this impacts the market.
     
  7. trip1eX

    trip1eX imo, afaik, feels like to me, *exceptions, ~aprox

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    Well we pretty much know ATT TV has done poorly. OTherwise they would be touting numbers to the rooftops. We can also guess that it has done poorly just by looking at the appeal of the offering. Just that alone was going to doom it.

    And again I see nothing to turn it around.


    I don't even think the OTT cable service market has a big future. I think it is a stop gap. Every major old media company is now on the streaming bandwagon. Seems like that is where things are moving.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2021
  8. lparsons21

    lparsons21 Well-Known Member

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    Actually I think what will disappear or at least get greatly reduced is live streaming services. And that’s because the younger folks just don’t watch TV the way we do.

    We’ve got two boxes right now that do some level in aggregating the various services. Apple’s “up next” strip and Google’s new Chromecast. While not good enough yet they are both a step in the direction things will probably take.
     
  9. trip1eX

    trip1eX imo, afaik, feels like to me, *exceptions, ~aprox

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    Yep but that's natural. IT's not going to amount to anything. For one, the cost is very high. Two, might as we get DTV or stay on DTV or cable because of the cost. Three, the service leaves something to be desired compared to other services. Four, if there is ever a mass exodus to ATT TV because of RSNs then deals will be made elsewhere.

    I mean Sling has its niche too but it's also been losing customers. A big reason is the service kind of sucks. IT's clunky to use. And i even have a $10/mo sub to Sling for La Liga (Bein Sports) right now. But it's clunky as all can be.

    There is a reason YTTV has gained a lot of customers and might pass Hulu Live soon. IT's a joy to use overall in comparison to the other guys.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2021
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  10. lparsons21

    lparsons21 Well-Known Member

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    Boy we don’t agree on that at all! :)

    I’ve used YTTV, in fact it was what I had before I switched to ATT TV. But the UI is an abomination IMO. The worst possible grid guide, even Hulu’s old grid guide was better but not by much. And the intermix of DVR/VOD was something I never liked. I could use it fine, just didn’t like it.

    ATT TV’s UI is much better in most respects but their DVR management is awkward though.

    I’ve got Sling Free and I also use an AirTV OTA DVR which works with Sling. Not the best UI but I think it is better than YTTV’s.

    But we all have things we like better than others. It is patently obvious you love YTTV. For me it would be fine if ATT TV disappears though I would probably go with Sling since it has all the channels I would care about for less and it works OK for me.
     
  11. trip1eX

    trip1eX imo, afaik, feels like to me, *exceptions, ~aprox

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    But your definition of horrible UI is that there is VoD in recordings. So I can't take you seriously there.

    I mean show me a review that says YTTV's UI is the worst. I just googled now and 5 of first the 6 reviews on page one say , under Pros, "intutive interface" ,"Excellent on-screen interface and handy search bar", "Simple and smart menus and organization", "easy to use." and "Excellent interface and navigation." That's CNET, PCMAG, Tomsguide.com, cordcutting.com and reviews.com. REviews.org said nothing in pros or cons about the UI.

    I'd be surprised if even one review said the YTTV UI was horrible. OR an abomination.

    Just because you didn't like 1 or 2 aspects of YTTV doesn't make its UI horrible. IT is laid out very straight forward and is very intuitive and easy to use and responsive on top of it.

    I agree the guide is a weak pt and I've said it a few times in this thread. IT lacks guide data (only has about 6 hrs worth on the tv,) it is a little big (the font is a little big) for a tv screen, there should be fewer clicks needed to record from the guide and, on the AppleTV, it should make proper use of the touchpad to scroll which would make navigating it faster. IT's odd too because the touchpad is used correctly to scroll through the timeline in recordings. Not sure why they don't do that in the guide yet. But i digress.

    The guide also has some strong pts. IT has a live thumbnail video of whatever program is playing on each channel. And while the font is perhaps too big, it also means it is easy to see. And the ease of use to add shows to your library through Search becomes what you do instead of using the guide to record so much. PLus you can reorder your channels how you want and hide ones you don't even want to see. At least some of the other don't do that. Maybe all. I forget.

    And the guide is fine to use overall. I mean it is responsive enough. EAsy to see. Laid out fine. CAn get info on shows. I guess it is lacking a bit on show info compared to some guides.

    SLING is clunky to use. For reasons mentioned many times before as well. Try to fast forward a bunch and it's not good. Sometimes I swear it doesn't work. on the ATV, scrolling forward is messy. IT's either too slow or if you go faster then it sudddenly jumps forward. Slow to load. REcordings mess up too often. They usually work. But when see things mess up a few times each time you have a service for a month or during a free trial it's not a good sign. You can't pause live tv on some channels last I checked. Managing dvr is tedious. Looking at your recordings is tedious. SEason pass stuff is tedious in some respects. I mean I couldn't record just Barcelona FC games. IT was either all La Liga games or manually record each Barcelona game. The problem with recording all is I have 10 hrs of DVR space. I can pay for more but even that amt is pretty low like 50 hrs. It all adds up to clunky.

    It does the job tho. I mean all these services are ok. AT the end of the day you can watch your show at least the vast majority of the time. And you can skip commercials on them. They will record stuff. YOu can adapt to clunky methods and get used to them.

    But YTTV just the nicest one to use overall.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2021
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  12. lparsons21

    lparsons21 Well-Known Member

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    You must have missed where i said that was my opinion. So just like all my opinions, they are solely mine and not influenced by opinionators, influencers, tech review clickbait article writers or others.

    The guide is way beyond ‘a little big’, it is grotesque! As to the DVR/VOD intermix, yes it sucks IMO, but also yes I figured out to get along with it.
     
  13. trip1eX

    trip1eX imo, afaik, feels like to me, *exceptions, ~aprox

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    No but I missed the part where you showed how the YTTV UI is an abomination. Still waiting for that.
     
  14. moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

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    Mission...
    The last 2 weeks I only got VOD version of Pen & Teller and Whose Line is It Anyway from CW even though they have been in my Library for a long time and previously I got DVR recordings. They seem like new episodes as well as I've never seen them before. Anyone know why only the VOD versions are available and not DVR on YTTV? The VOD versions are so annoying with the ads it almost makes me not want to watch.
     
  15. dlfl

    dlfl Cranky old novice

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    Your situation interested me so I did some poking around. Found that although the web site that shows YTTV channels my zip code should get shows CW, I do not get that local station, only VOD. I then chatted with YTTV support.

    TL;DR is that some channels shown in the web site results are VOD only. (!!). I expressed my disappointment with that and the agent sympathized and said she would submit feedback on that. I suggested they at least note the VOD-only status in the web page results.

    Now why this just started two weeks ago for you, I don’t know. I haven’t had any CW programs in my Library so I wouldn’t have noticed such behavior. Your post reminded me I like Penn & Teller so I may put that in my Library, in spite of the commercials.

    Actually I’m still running a lifetime 4-tuner Roamio on antenna and can record that channel so I could watch it with ability to skip thru commercials. Since I’ve had YTTV we go for weeks without even watching anything on the TiVo. The only other channel we like and can only get on it is the ME channel and that’s not high priority.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2021
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  16. dlfl

    dlfl Cranky old novice

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    @lparsons21 has given some specifics, for example he doesn’t like the live guide grid. As far as it applies to the Fire TV YTTV app, I would have to agree. It only goes out about 7 hours. There is a grid available on Fire devices by exiting the YTTV app. It goes out 12 days or so but is poorly integrated with the YTTV app.

    However in making such criticisms it’s important to realize the the UI varies depending on what viewing device/app is being used. Apparently the YTTV UI via a browser is better, and goes out 12 days or so. (I haven’t used it.) Another feature that varies is the ability to mark episodes as watched. It doesn’t exist in the Fire TV YTTV app although it does in some other viewing clients.
     
  17. trip1eX

    trip1eX imo, afaik, feels like to me, *exceptions, ~aprox

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    But that doesn't make the YTTV UI an abomination. I don't disagree that the lack of data in the guide sucks. First said so much in this thread over a year ago.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2021
  18. lparsons21

    lparsons21 Well-Known Member

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    That’s the thing about opinions, they are more often than not, subjective.

    The guide certainly isn’t good at all. Fonts way too big, guide width on streaming boxes way too narrow. And yeah, search makes up for some of that and is excellent.

    My biggest complaint is the DVR/VOD intermix. I find it awkward and cluttered. You like it apparently. Many others don’t and it is usually the first complaint a new user makes when signing up for the service.
     
  19. lparsons21

    lparsons21 Well-Known Member

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    I had forgotten about that integrated guide on the FireTV’s. I don’t use it much because it gets so cluttered with what they integrate even though you can massage the presentation a little.

    And yeah, a pet peeve of mine is how the various apps work differently on different boxes. I’m on a seemingly never ending search for the ‘one box’ to do it all. AppleTV, FireTV and Roku all could be, and for some, actually are.
     
  20. lparsons21

    lparsons21 Well-Known Member

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    Another complaint, and it is just behind the DVR/VOD intermix, is that you can’t get an episode description until you are actually watching the episode. Kind of defeats the purpose of even having an episode description.
     

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