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Alternative to a Slingbox

Discussion in 'TiVo Stream' started by tivaulo, Nov 11, 2017.

  1. BeerPimp

    BeerPimp New Member

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    I wondered about this. I just purchased a slingbox 500. I hope the add revenue and the small amount of app purchases is enough to keep the sling servers going. I don't see the sling company going anywhere since Dish owns them and they seem to be doing well with slingtv.
     
  2. milo99

    milo99 Well-Known Member

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    Falls...
    Yeah thats what I'm counting on.
     
  3. merleau79

    merleau79 New Member

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    Do you get the box saying "HDMI connection not permitted"? Also, it is odd, but I have to change the HDMI input in order to watch the slingbox. My Tivo is connected to my Xbox via HDMI 1. If I have my TV on that input I get the error "The connected video signal is not supported". But if I change the input to HDMI 4 I get the picture, but that 'not permitted' box appears. This never happened before.
     
  4. osu1991

    osu1991 Active Member

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    Not with newer tv’s

    I did with an older early model LCD connected to the mini via hdmi. I just used component cables on that tv with the mini and slingbox until I replaced that tv last Christmas. I don’t have the problem with the newer tv’s and our slingboxes. I have the mini connected to the slingbox via component cables and the mini connected to the tv via hdmi. Works fine.
     
  5. merleau79

    merleau79 New Member

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    My TV is only 2 or 3 years old. I have the Tivo and the slingbox connected by component cables and the Tivo connected to the Xbox. Then the Xbox connected to the Samsung HDMI hub.
     
  6. merleau79

    merleau79 New Member

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    I figured it out while on hold with Tivo support (they kept thinking the box was Sling TV and I couldn't convince them otherwise). Anyway, the HDMI hub for my TV, I believe, is only HDCP compliant on port 4. So, the cable from the Tivo has to be plugged into that port. And you have to leave that source on when you watch the Slingbox, which I don't like if I want to watch the box while playing PS4. But it'll do when I'm on the road. Thanks for the reply.
     
  7. azcoyotes

    azcoyotes New Member

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    Aug 28, 2018
    I hope and pray Dish hasn’t completely stopped supporting the mobile apps for Slingbox. Otherwise my Slingbox 500’s usable days are numbered. I’ve been using the iOS 12 betas on my older iPad Mini 2 for testing purposes. The SlingPlayer for iPad app immediately crashes upon launch in iOS 12. Flat out won’t run with iOS 12. Others attempting to use SlingPlayer apps with iOS 12 beta on iPhone/iPad have reported the same issue on Reddit. If the SlingPlayer iOS apps aren’t updated to run under iOS 12, many Slingbox users will be in for a nasty surprise when iOS 12 officially becomes available in a few weeks. About 95% of my Slingbox 500 usage has been through the iOS apps on my iPhone and iPads. If the apps aren’t updated to run under iOS 12, that box becomes pretty useless.
     
  8. nuraman00

    nuraman00 Member

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    Dec 28, 2012
    Why does the connection type make a difference?
     
  9. nuraman00

    nuraman00 Member

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    Dec 28, 2012
    Sometimes I wish Tivo, or some other company, offered in-home support. Because trying to explain to someone over the phone, that you are using a Slingbox, and not Sling TV, is difficult. Sometimes, the person on the phone, just doesn't get it.

    But if they sent a technician over to help troubleshoot something, they'd see what you meant.
     
  10. Series3Sub

    Series3Sub Well-Known Member

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    Because HDMI being DIGITAL easily incorporates HDCP (High-bandwidth Digital Copy Protection). Many basic and higher tier pay cable/sat channels such as Disney, Nat Geo, etc. may contain flags that will limit copies or simply not allow any at all and will NOT pass through to the Slingbox or a DVR Recorder, etc. as a clear image and will display BLACK only.

    The Component (Red, Blue, Green cables) connection is ANALOG and the digital HDCP is not effective on component connections. This is why it is recommended to use Component connections when passing through signals that contain HDCP. I should add that there are ways to shut down even the component output, but those copy protections methods are not implemented/allowed at this time, but content owners had been working to change that, but I don't think it went very far mostly because it would have "broken" a lot of legacy TV's that have only component inputs for HD. HOWEVER . . . .

    If one has only an HDMI connection available, then using a very inexpensive HDMI POWERED Splitter (not to be confused with an HDMI Switch), will render the HDCP ineffective, and one gets a clear signal via HDMI from the output of the HDMI splitter to the Slingbox, etc. for streaming/recording, and this should not require anything else be on/powered up except the cable/Sat/DVR box and the Slingbox. Such splitters are for sale at the very large on-line retailer named after the river for around $20. Read the reviews at said on-line retailer to verify. You only need a 2 way POWERED splitter unless you have uses for the 3 or 4 way one.

    I will say that when you first set up the powered HDMI splitter, you may have to connect and then reconnect the power a few times or connect and reconnect the HDMI cable to get it to consistently send a clear signal AT FIRST, but after you establish that, their is almost never anything else to do. It is just that the very first HDMI "handshake" can be a very tricky, fussy, intermittent hit or miss thing at the very first time you set it up--even with approved devices--so it can take a few more times of messing about and getting the "handshake" just right taking just a minute of two of your time, but after that, you should never have to mess with it again.

    Again, OTA does NOT send any copy protections flags (in very rare cases a few stations were unaware they were sending out such flags until they were made aware of it, and then removed them) as per Federal Court ruling that the broadcasters never appealed. The broadcasters just let it be. However, that is for ATSC 1.0 today. We may see digital copy protection with ATSC 3.0; I've not read anything regarding this, but we should expect the worst when it comes to digital copy protection.

    Just an "if you're interested," the court didn't rule on the legality of the copy protection scheme, just that the requirement and enforcement of the Copy Protection scheme was beyond the FCC's mandate. Congress (and the NAB hacks who wrote the law and paid--I mean paved its way through Congress) had erred. The broadcasters never appealed the decision, so it stands. Lots of digital recording devices at the time such as DVR's and DVD recorders had software that was compliant with the "required" broadcast copy protection scheme, but then the court decision came down, and there was no "requirement" after all. I don't think the broadcast copy protection flags were ever implemented except by accident, and I seem to remember a preliminary injunction preventing its implementation until after the case was decided. So, lots of useless CP software on my old DVD Recorders.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2018
  11. nuraman00

    nuraman00 Member

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    Dec 28, 2012
    Thanks for the info. Where exactly do I connect the powered Splitter to? What are the different connections I need to make? Should I get a 4K 30Hz or 4K 60Hz one?

    I'd be using either a Tivo Stream or a Slingbox.

    EDIT: I'm leaning towards a Tivo Stream, since the powered HDMI splitter solution should resolve one of the drawbacks of the Tivo Stream, which was the copy protection.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2018
  12. nuraman00

    nuraman00 Member

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    And how does using the Powered splitter help get past the copy protection? Why does it work?
     
  13. Series3Sub

    Series3Sub Well-Known Member

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    I have had the TiVo stream for years, and I do use it on occasion. Frankly the only reason to get a TiVo stream is that you can transfer recordings to a mobile device-- if they don't have the copy protection from transferring that program to the mobile device, and a great many do-- because the TiVo Stream can be quite unreliable. it works best with in your LAN, but even then you can get very poor quality streams. as for out-of-home streaming the TiVo Stream follows even flatter on its face, but does have its good days. it has been reported by many on this for him that the TiVo Stream will not do so if you are outside of the United States. I can't tell you the number of times that I tried to use my stream and just given up and used my Slingbox instead. So, if you want to get a TiVo Stream to transfer programs that are allowed to be transferred to your mobile device, fine. But don't count on it as a streamer. be aware that the TiVo Stream is an old product and has not been in production for years and has not received any updates or enhancements in a very long time.

    if you if you want a reliable streamer with with good to excellent quality video, then the Slingbox is the only tool that delivers. keep in mind that the Slingbox will take over whatever box it's connected to operating it as if you were right there at the home in front of your TV so this means that while you're slinging from that particular Box nobody else can be watching TV independently off of that same box. however many TiVo users have solve this problem by connecting the Slingbox to the mini and using the minis component output using the breakout cable. the advantage of using the component cable is that all content can be passed through to the Slingbox and she remote location even content that has digital copy protection on it because component is not digital, but component connection still provides high definition.

    Or if you take the HDMI route, referring to the earlier post, all you do is have an HDMI cable from the output of the cable sat box to the input of the splitter and then another HDMI cable from one of the outputs of the splitter into the Slingbox HDMI input.

    You can view your streamed content being sent from the Slingbox to your remote location on a computer or mobile device or if you want to watch it on a big screen TV I suggest you invest in the Amazon Fire TV because there is a free Slingbox app for Fire TV that when you launch it it will automatically connect to your Slingbox and begin streaming and the picture quality on a big TV is very nice. that's the easiest and most reliable way of watching your stream content on a really big HDTV screen.

    Slingbox uses Slingbox uses proprietary encoding that is capable of sending good quality video even in very low speed or low bandwidth internet situations, and I'm talking about Upstream internet speed as slow as 3 megabits per second. for the most excellent absolute highest quality picture approximately 8 megabits per second is required. however the picture quality is outstanding at even half that rate. the encoding occurs on the Fly constantly adjusting to the speeder bandwidth of the internet connections without having to drop out or restart. as for the TiVo Stream, on good days it's really good, and on bad days, which are most of the days, it is a subpar in regards to streaming, may have problems logging in, can be a little flaky buggy and also provide very poor image quality requiring you to maybe disconnect and reconnect disconnect and reconnect again and again and sometimes you just can't fix it then I go to the Slingbox.

    Personally, I recommend this Slingbox option but of course that's your final decision.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2018
  14. Series3Sub

    Series3Sub Well-Known Member

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    I really I really haven't found an explanation as to why it is so. However there are plenty of Tech sights and audio video media sites with plenty of articles about the fact that it does work to circumvent the hdcp. this should not be surprising as the stupid media content owners always throw tons of money at these supposed copy protection solutions that have all been easily circumvented. yeah I know it sounds crazy that all you need is an HDMI splitter to circumvent hdcp, but that has been the history with stupid copy protection that the media company to blow money on licensing and then finding out that it's easy to circumvent. you can also go to Amazon looking up these HDMI Splitters with a lots of people verifying that it does circumvent hdcp. I use an HDMI splitter for one of my sling boxes for both dish and TiVo and it does circumvent hdcp. It really works. all the dish channels that are hdcp come through clear and beautifully through the HDMI two-way and into the Slingbox and through the internet to my mobile device or Fire TV connected to a big screen HDTV.
     
  15. nuraman00

    nuraman00 Member

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    Dec 28, 2012
    Thanks. A few more things. For the powered splitter, should I get a 4K 30Hz or 4K 60Hz one? I'm not sure how important this really is, so I thought I'd ask.

    As for how I'd use the Slingbox:

    * Connected to a 21" monitor, that's connected to a laptop, out of home.
    * Since you mentioned the Fire TV, I looked up one more possibility. An out of home Roku. I have to check what model Roku the owner has, but it looks like I should be able to use my Android phone to launch Sling Player, and send it to that Roku when I'm at that location.

    It looks like the back of the Tivo Mini Vox doesn't have component. So I have to use HDMI.

    [​IMG]

    Here's the back of the Slingbox:


    [​IMG]


    Now, in terms of physical space:

    I have a wall mounted TV upstairs. My main Tivo Premiere XL4 is downstairs on a stand (where the TV is).

    Once I got my Tivo Mini, I was thinking of either mounting it behind the TV, or getting a small 12" by 12" table or 18" by 18", and placing it on there.

    If I am able to mount the Tivo Mini behind the TV, then I wouldn't want any other devices in that upstairs area. So no powered splitter or Slingbox.

    In that case, the powered splitter and Slingbox would go downstairs.

    I'm also the only one that uses the TV, so it would be ok if I controlled the Slingbox when I stream out of home.

    However, I see the benefit of connecting the Slingbox to the Tivo Mini instead. And if something changes in the future, and there could be someone watching at home while I'm out of network Slinging, then having that setup would be better.

    Plus, if I can't mount the Tivo Mini behind the TV, and I have to get small table anyways, then why not just put the Slingbox and powered splitter on that future small table anyways?

    I see two options to mount the Tivo Mini behind the TV.

    Velcro straps like these:

    https://www.walmart.com/ip/VELCRO-Brand-Industrial-Strength-4in-x-2in-Strips-Black-4-ct/32476264

    Or a device mount like this:

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01M4NQ0S...colid=5ZOH1613TYZ9&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

    For the Velcro straps, I prefer not to put sticky adhesive from the back of the straps, onto the back of the TV. I'd rather keep the back of the TV as sticky free as possible.

    For the device mount, I don't see how to really use it? It looks like the wall mount takes up most of my space:

    https://i.imgur.com/vbaDEc9.jpg


    What do you think about all of this? Both in terms of how I'd use the Slingbox, and the physical setup options I have.
     
  16. nuraman00

    nuraman00 Member

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    Dec 28, 2012
    I just remembered that I can't connect my Slingbox to Ethernet if it's upstairs. My switch and router are downstairs.

    So the Slingbox and the powered splitter have to go downstairs, then.

    So I don't think I can connect the Slingbox to the Tivo Mini upstairs, then.
     
  17. nuraman00

    nuraman00 Member

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    Dec 28, 2012
    Wait. If the Tivo Mini is connected via MoCA, and the Slingbox is connected to the Mini, does that work?

    Or does the Slingbox have to be connected via Ethernet too?
     
  18. mdavej

    mdavej Well-Known Member

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    Slingbox won't function without an internet connection. There are many ways to accomplish that without ethernet - Moca, Powerline Ethernet, Wireless Access Point. I got my last Moca adapter on Amazon for $10. Access points start around $20. A pair of powerline adapters are more expensive and would be redundant on a Moca system.
     
  19. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    You can use the cheap MoCA adapter that I believe @mdavej is referring to, the WCB3000N, to network both the Mini and Slingbox, since the WCB3000N has 2 Ethernet ports; and if you have wireless coverage issues in that section of your house it can help with that, too, otherwise its wireless access point functionality can be disabled.

    Find the WCB3000N in the following post, or browse for alternatives...

    MoCA adapter shopping list

    edit: p.s. e.g.:

    B83A673F-42C9-4E6A-93C2-28AD3735A056.jpeg

    Just don’t get too excited about the Gigabit Ethernet ports, since the Mini will be limited by its Fast Ethernet port and I expect the Slingbox will have the same. (As an aside, marketing those ports as 10x faster than Fast Ethernet is really deceitful given the best throughput to be expected via the device’s MoCA connection is 170 Mbps.)
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2018
  20. nuraman00

    nuraman00 Member

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    Dec 28, 2012
    So something like this?

    https://www.amazon.com/Actiontec-Du...Accessories&sr=1-4&ref=sr_1_4#customerReviews

    That one has 2 Ethernet ports. So I'd connect the coax in, then one Ethernet to the Tivo Mini, and another Ethernet to the Slingbox.

    Is there something with 3 Ethernet ports, so I can also connect the TV to Ethernet, so it doesn't have to use wireless? It would be nice to be able to connect the TV to wired internet.

    This says it's available to service providers only:

    MoCA Network Adapter ECB5240M - Actiontec.com

    I can't find anything in stock and available, but maybe you can find something?

    Also, what's so different about connecting the Slingbox to the Tivo Mini, vs. the main Tivo? If the Slingbox is connected to the main Tivo, and someone is Slinging, can someone still use the Tivo Mini to borrow a tuner or watch a recording?
     

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