Alternative service up?

Discussion in 'TiVo Series 1 - UK' started by ptruman, May 17, 2011.

  1. May 20, 2011 #41 of 111
    spitfires

    spitfires wassock

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    Since the project is "sponsored" by Tivoland I would assume that they are covering the costs. :up:
     
  2. May 20, 2011 #42 of 111
    Pete77

    Pete77 New Member

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    I suggest the answer is that if you currently have an unused unsubbed Tivo not doing anything and an alternative working program source for it (given that the AltEPG unfortunately does not support the internal tuner and that splitting a satellite signal from a single wall point does not work and that my Freeview signal here has become non existent due to non maintenance of the communal aerial since the communal satellite system was installed) then it could be made a test machine for the AltEPG.

    However for any Tivo that you still actively use with lots of recordings, Thumbs, Season Passes and recordings on it you would be well advised to wait and see if the current Tivo service is actually cut off and/or if it is when it is cut off. Since there should be a daily download until either Tuesday May 31st or Wednesday June 1st that means that EPG data will not run out for even the main terrestrial channels until Sunday June 12th and for minor satellite channels there will be EPG data until Tuesday June 21st or Wednesday June 22nd.

    In short for your main Tivo that you have valued recordings on you have another three weeks from this Saturday before you need to act. If you have a second Tivo then you might well give consideration to putting that in to service for the AltEPG and keeping your current Tivo as is until you have watched all the recordings on it.
     
  3. May 20, 2011 #43 of 111
    Trinitron

    Trinitron New Member

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    More misinformation. :rolleyes: Running Guided Setup retains recordings.

    As with any major software revisions a 'clean' install is better but in this case not at all essential.
     
  4. May 20, 2011 #44 of 111
    mikerr

    mikerr TiVoCentral.co.uk

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    Still in denial then?

    Read my lips: no need to lose recordings - its been mentioned several times now (just don't run clear and delete)
     
  5. May 20, 2011 #45 of 111
    Pete77

    Pete77 New Member

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    The AltEPG project clearly has a significant commercial value to both Tivoland and Tivocentral since it allows them to continue selling their upgraded Tivo hard drives and/or refurbushed and upgraded Tivos, a market that would otherwise disappear. Indeed I may well become a customer for a new upgraded drive for the AltEPG if I have to start again with thumbs and season passes as my two Samsung HA250HCs whilst still working after six years are showing some signs of wear including the occasional stutter while watching a recording and the mysterious disappearance of around 25% of my previously quoted Recording Capacity in System Information.

    However I am also inclined to note that the current stock of Tivos held by Tivoland and Tivocentral actually becomes more valuable on June 1st as now any Tivo automatically has a Lifetime Subscription to the AltEPG.

    For all of those reasons I was rather amazed to hear from Dave of Tivoland recently that the commercial funding of any cost items of the project did not apparently involve Tivocentral at that stage. Given that Mike had seemingly taken over the majority of the Tivo drive upgrade market in the last two years after the withdrawal of Tivoheaven (even though Dave of Tivoland still had part of it) I found it inexplicable that Mike would not also be equally involved in coordinating the AltEPG project from a funding point of view.

    It is clear however that there are a large number of volunteers from overseas and in the UK with technical knowledge who are giving their time just out of their belief in the Tivo product and those who use it and because of their enjoyment of such a technical challenge and to those people I take my hat off even though I may appear to be grumpy ungrateful old so and so at times.
     
  6. May 20, 2011 #46 of 111
    Pete77

    Pete77 New Member

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    The new AltEPG service is still in Alpha test. I choose not take the risk with a machine on which I have 600 recordings and thousands of thumbs and over 200 Season Passes and Wishlists until the AltEPG has been subjected to more Alpha and Beta testing.

    I would immediately sign up my unused Tivo for the AltEPG Alpha test if I had a working program source for it. At the moment my communal aerial signal has deteriorated to a point where I cannot tune in any Freeview channel on my Netgem Iplayer Freeview box. A communal satellite point signal cannot be split in two sadly.
     
  7. May 20, 2011 #47 of 111
    Leif_Davidsen

    Leif_Davidsen Happy UK Tivoer

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    I have upmost admiration for those involved in the AltEPG project who have put in countless hours as well as spending real money.
    I registered our 2 Tivos for the project yesterday - and decided to donate a fair sum to the project that should hopefully help defray some expenses. We may need to buy disks at some point in the future as long as the service continues and if that also helps pay back the time and effort to those involved - then good for them. They have got on and done stuff - not just talked about it
     
  8. May 20, 2011 #48 of 111
    spitfires

    spitfires wassock

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    ^ True but it was a bit of a closed shop - 67 people offered to help in various roles when it was still a community project. 63 of them were deemed unnecessary and have sat twiddling their thumbs for two months. They made life harder for themselves than necessary IMO.

    (No not sour grapes or ingratitude; just stating a fact).
     
  9. May 20, 2011 #49 of 111
    TCM2007

    TCM2007 Active Member

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    My understanding is that AltEPG is running on donated server space, modems etc. Introducing a fee is not an option as as soon as you do so the use use of the various EPG sources becomes illegal, as they are only licensed for non-commercial use.

    I'm not privvy to Mike or Dave's finances, but if it provides more than an occasional bit of beer money these days I'd be surprised.
     
  10. May 20, 2011 #50 of 111
    Pete77

    Pete77 New Member

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    I detect that you were one of the 63 who were excluded Spitfires. Meanwhile for whatever reasons TCM2007 seems to have become a leading light in the development work even though with his long ago exit from actually using Tivo for tv recording he was unlikely to appreciate why keeping existing Season Passes and/or thumbs that were attached to old TMSIDs going would have been important to many of us long time Tivo users.

    If there were functionality related choices to be made on how the AltEPG project was developed or worked it is also a pity that these were never put to a vote amongst the wider Tivocommunity user base.

    I will probably sign up my Tivo box that can dial up on the phone line to the AltEPG in the next couple of days just to test the principle even though it won't actually be able to record anything due to my communal aerial no longer delivering a useful signal to my Freeview box.

    However I intend to keep my main Tivo using the Tribune EPG until it finally runs out.

    Dave always seemed to have access to a large Tivo scrapyard somewhere that supplied his refurbished Tivo units. It therefore makes perfect sense to me that he should be spierheading the creation of the AltEPG service.
     
  11. May 20, 2011 #51 of 111
    spitfires

    spitfires wassock

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    Normally true but I can see a lot of non-tech users purchasing an upgraded disc in the next few weeks as being the simplest way to keep their service running. £40 profit per disc, say 25 discs = £1,000. That's a lot of beer ;)
     
  12. May 20, 2011 #52 of 111
    spitfires

    spitfires wassock

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    Much of that was for expediency - there was an awful lot to do and a very short time to do it in. I (and many others) am *very* grateful for the work that TCM2007, healeydave and the other guys have put in, and I know the technical decisions [1] they made were in the best interest of our Tivos! Yes an open discussion would've been nice but time was short.


    Shame about the dual source setup no longer being supported though :(


    [1] although I do disagree with some of the business decisions which have been made without reference to the community
     
  13. May 20, 2011 #53 of 111
    BrianHughes

    BrianHughes Regurgitated user

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    You've never gone out for a weekend's drinking in Glasgow, have you? :p
     
  14. May 20, 2011 #54 of 111
    spitfires

    spitfires wassock

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    4 pints and I'm anybody's! :eek:
     
  15. May 20, 2011 #55 of 111
    Pete77

    Pete77 New Member

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    I would be interested to know more about some of those "business decisions".

    There is no doubt that TCM2007 is technically competent and is used to managing projects and getting them delivered on time.

    The only thing I would question about TCM2007 is his all too frequent view that his way of doing things is also the best and the only way of doing things. The lack of dual tuner support by AltEPG and lack of support for old Season Passes in my opinion reflects that approach. Even non support of analogue channels is also questionable since it does represent the current tuner for quite a few existing Tivo users and forces them to move to Freeview at a time when not all of the UK yet has an adequate level of Freeview signal available. This will only be available to at least 99% of the UK after digital switchover in April 2012.

    Also non support of the internal Tivo tuner has prevented me from running a fully functional Alpha test Tivo unit whilst my main Tivo is still using the communal Sky satellite input as its program source.
     
  16. May 20, 2011 #56 of 111
    Trinitron

    Trinitron New Member

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    Do you ever think before pressing Submit Reply? The analogue receiver in the TiVo box can use multiple combinations of channels from 21-69, dependent on transmitter region. So lots of work setting up and maintaining the EPG for something that will be obsolete in less than 12 months - and is already obsolete for much of the country. Better to have something that works reliably for 80% of the users than aim for 100% and fail. I suspect very few people will use a dual tuner set up with a single TiVo. If they do, then they should be the kind of people who will know how to work around it.
     
  17. May 20, 2011 #57 of 111
    Automan

    Automan Ex TiVo User

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    I can't imagine many users still have a Tivo setup with just their 4 UHF channels?

    No Chn5 via UHF where I live.

    Most I expect either have gone for Satellite or Freeview (if they live in the correct location) to boost their program choice.

    Automan.
     
  18. May 20, 2011 #58 of 111
    RichardJH

    RichardJH New Member

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    Even if it's Pete ? :eek::eek::p:p:p
     
  19. May 20, 2011 #59 of 111
    Pete77

    Pete77 New Member

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    Always. But this seems to be a stuck record refrain that you probably use when anyone else says anything you don't agree with in the forum.

    Mike of TivoCentral reports that many of his replacement hard drive customers still only use the internal analogue tv tuner on their Tivo. Also your idea that 20% of Tivo S1 users don't count is much like Virgin's idea that 50% of them don't matter. Yes in April 2012 they will move to Freeview next year but at the moment they don't have a Freeview signal at all so can't move to it.

    Also the work involved to support the analogue channels would surely be relatively small since under the new EPG people are being allowed to choose the channels they watch rather than given a channel package for each region.

    Quite a lot of people use the Freeview and Freesat dual source option as several Freeview channels like Dave and Virgin 1 are not available FTA on a Freesat From Sky or BBC/ITV Freesat box.

    What you really seem to be saying is you don't see why anyone else needs to use options that you don't personally use.
     
  20. May 20, 2011 #60 of 111
    AMc

    AMc Active Member

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    If you're networked it is perfectly feasible to move recordings off now and then replace them with the current OS. I'd guess you will be able to insert recordings as easily if not more easily with AltEPG.

    It's not particularly fun and even the speedier cachecard is glacially slow compared to modern network devices so if you think you might do this then I would start now.

    I'm not sure I'm going to bother as virtually everything over 3 months old stands slim chance of actually getting watched and so losing it may not be as bad as it seems - I think of it as an enforced tidy up!

    [edit] Missed there was a whole other page of this - if you don't have to lose recordings then all to the good.

    It took me about 20 minutes to take a snapshot of my +300 season passes in Tivoweb and enter them into Windows Media Centre so recreating them really isn't worth worrying about - the only minor irritation might be ordering them but that's always been a pain even with Tivoeweb[/edit]
     

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