All Channels Matter

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by Kaphka, Jun 7, 2020.

  1. Jun 7, 2020 #1 of 21
    Kaphka

    Kaphka Member

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    I recently started a new cable contract, so I figured it was a good time to go through my TiVo channel list and check for any issues. As usual, I found a few channels with no guide data. I started making a list to submit to TiVo support, but after a while I noticed a really strange theme. This is a complete list of the channels that are missing guide data on my TiVo:

    Cleo TV
    Afro
    WXTV-3 Bounce
    WCTV-3 Bounce
    Starz Encore Black

    Notice what they all have in common? Yeah. So that's weird.

    The rest of my channels are fine, including the other Starz/Encore channels. These five channels are all from different companies (except the two Bounce affiliates), so there's no other connection between them. I know most have them have been missing guide data at least since the beginning of May, and probably a lot longer, so it's not related to any recent news.

    How could this even happen? I can't think of any sane explanation.
     
  2. Jun 7, 2020 #2 of 21
    gigaquad

    gigaquad Tivo Image Master

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    Extremely niche market? Low viewership? Overwhelming ability to shout "rassiss" at the drop of a hat?
     
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  3. Jun 7, 2020 #3 of 21
    shwru980r

    shwru980r Well-Known Member

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    Are their any other similarly themed channels that have guide data?
     
  4. Jun 7, 2020 #4 of 21
    wizwor

    wizwor Active Member

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    Probably just channels that take their constituents for granted. PBS is very lax with their PSIP support as well. Channels that have to earn their viewers probably work harder than those who have a cemented base.
     
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  5. Jun 7, 2020 #5 of 21
    AlvisoShowcase

    AlvisoShowcase Member

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    Please file a lineup issue here Tivo Customer Support Community
     
  6. Jun 7, 2020 #6 of 21
    Kaphka

    Kaphka Member

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    Yes, BET and TVOne have always had guide data for me. I could have sworn that Starz Encore Black had guide data in the past, too, but I'm not positive. Still, it's too improbable to be a coincidence. I have something like 500 active channels with guide data and 5 channels without guide data, and every single one of the channels without guide data is Black-focused.

    The broadcasters have very little to do with whether or not TiVo has guide data. Even still, why would I have guide data for Encore Classics and Encore Westerns and Encore Action, but not Encore Black? And why would I have guide data for WCTV-1, WCTV-2, WCTV-4, and WCTV-5, but not WCTV-3? I'm sure all of the subchannels are run by the same people.

    I plan to. Like I said, I'm just wondering how this happened, because it's bizarre.
     
  7. Jun 7, 2020 #7 of 21
    wizwor

    wizwor Active Member

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    They have EVERYTHING to do with PSIP data. I finally got my PBS master to toe the line by reporting every miss to the FCC.
     
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  8. Jun 7, 2020 #8 of 21
    dishrich

    dishrich Active Member

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    Simple...your cable provider (whomever that might be, since you didn't tell us...but I'm going to guess it's Comcast) simply hasn't bothered to submit the appropriate lineup changes to Rovi for your particular system. Our Comcast system carries all those channels you mentioned & ALL of them have had guide data almost to the day they were added to our system. CLEO & AFRO are relatively new & were added to most Comcast systems within a couple weeks of each other about a year+ ago, so it could be a simple oversight on your system. However, we also do have couple other channels STILL listed that were removed almost 2+ years ago & a couple that were never added, & frankly I simply haven't had time to submit a ticket to Tivo, since (the added ones) don't interest me.
     
  9. Jun 7, 2020 #9 of 21
    shwru980r

    shwru980r Well-Known Member

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    It could be the cable company's fault or Tivo's fault. If it's malice, I think they would have turned them all off or at least turned off BET. Certainly they would have been aware of the theme of BET that has been around for 40 years and is the flagship channel for this theme. TVOne has been around for 16 years and competes directly with BET. Also, If it's someone at Tivo, would they only turn your cable provider off or turn every provider off?

    Hanlon's razor "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity"
     
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  10. Kaphka

    Kaphka Member

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    Okay, but TiVo doesn't use PSIP at all. TiVo has its own sources of data.

    TiVo has the correct callsigns for all of the channels. I thought that meant that the TiVo database knows what they are, although now that I think about it, I'm not completely sure. I know TiVo uses its own sources for program information, but maybe it does use embedded information to identify the channels?

    If it is a Comcast issue, it's still a pretty weird coincidence, but it would be within the realm of possibility. Comcast clearly treats these channels as a group, so it's possible that they screwed them up as a group.

    My problem is that neither malice nor stupidity is an adequate explanation in this case. I can't think of any reason to for TiVo to screw with these channels on purpose, but I also can't imagine how a mistake could just affect this specific set of channels. From TiVo's perspective, there's no connection between them.
     
  11. baltz

    baltz New Member

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    TiVo's guide data is wrong all of the time since the switch to Rovi. Maybe these channels aren't popular with TiVo's demographics. If that's true, it's likely that no one has bothered to submit these to TiVo support to have them corrected.
     
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  12. tommiet

    tommiet Active Member

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    Interesting... Starz Encore Black has guide data for me. I'm running TE4 too. Just in case that is an issue.

    Be Safe...
     
  13. Kaphka

    Kaphka Member

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    I think you're on to something here. I had the same idea after my last post. A few years back we had a channel realignment, and maybe twenty or thirty channels were screwed up. Most of those channels were quickly corrected, probably because people complained to TiVo. TiVos are pretty rare these days, so it's possible that there are only a handful of other TiVo customers in my market. Maybe those other customers only complained about the issues they noticed, and none of them noticed the problems with those channels because they don't watch them. That could explain how it ended up like this.

    I'm using TE3, but I'm pretty sure they both use the same guide data.
     
  14. JoeKustra

    JoeKustra in the other Alabama TCF Club

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    It's probable the data starts the same, but somewhere it changes. Titles and descriptions are sometimes very different. Also the split started a few months back. Now TE4 gets three guide updates every day. When a TE3 box gets TE4 data, there will be a lot of TBA at the end. TE4 data is two additional days, but the last day ends at 8pm. This change coincides with the system crash on TE3 if a CPI&TDL is run.
     
  15. wbrightfl

    wbrightfl Member

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    We recently had several channels relocate to new higher channel numbers and the guide was messed up for the ones you mentioned and a few more which don't lean toward any race demographic. Cooking shows, local events, religion, etc. those type of channels. I used the report channel line-up Tivo page to report the missing guide data and in a few days it was all fixed. Doesn't look like a conspiracy to me, just poor communication between cable operator and Tivo. Nothing new there.
     
  16. Kaphka

    Kaphka Member

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    Interesting. I noticed that the guide has been missing a lot of future data for the past few months, but it usually gets corrected by the air date. Maybe that's why.

    See, if there were even one or two other channels missing, it wouldn't be as strange. I don't count local events channels because I know they're hopeless, and I haven't checked non-English channels (which I've disabled to avoid accidentally recording them) or shopping channels (which I've disabled on principle.) Absolutely every other channel that should have guide data has guide data.

    It's mathematically possible that they accidentally happened to screw up just these 5 unrelated channels out of 746 (I counted), but it still seems really, really improbable.
     
  17. JoeKustra

    JoeKustra in the other Alabama TCF Club

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    Why is because there are, in effect, two guides. First there is the active guide, which goes out six to eight days. Normally this can include even recent changes. Then there is what I like to call the boilerplate. This is a canned guide that is seldom updated. I could spend time on it, but it's not productive and I don't work for TiVo. If you have can, look at MSNBC for Saturday. The second one will TBA all day. I don't care since it should get fixed. Same goes for their daytime programs, where they have content that hasn't existed in over six months.

    All that gets me grouchy about is when my TE3 box gets the TE4 data with all its TBA and TNA. A while back I had TVGOS on my Sony DHG. It was an eight day guide. So I now only expect eight days. Late night is usually only three or four.
     
  18. AlvisoShowcase

    AlvisoShowcase Member

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    As I mentioned, please file a lineup issue.
    And take the following comment with a grain of salt and skepticism. I don't work in that area of the company but I did a check of the schedule for those sources and they all appear to have current programming, at least in our tools.
     
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  19. mattack

    mattack Well-Known Member

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    It's not directly related to this exact thread, but is a general guide data issue.. I hope you can pass this feedback on (write a bug in your internal bug system):
    Search Comedy Central's lineups daily for "Comedy Central Programming" segments, and get them corrected, They sometimes are what shows up for missing Daily Show episodes, but today there are a bunch of them randomly through the day. I haven't checked my recordings yet, but often they end up being PART of a show.

    Sort of the same thing, but search through the guide listings for 'generic data' shows, and maybe keep track of them. For common instances, bug the channels to provide accurate listings. This VERY often causes unneeded recordings (and based on priority, can prevent a a new episode of some other show from recording).

    Search through the guide data before sending it out to users and make sure that the LENGTH of the program is correct. Maybe this is a bug on the Tivo customer end, I'm not sure. But VERY VERY often I can be looking through the listings, and there's a clearly 2 hour show that shows up as "0 h 0 m". That kind of case is most often, but once in a while it shows up as some random shorter non-0 length. Actually recording the show works correctly AFAIK. It's just looks REALLY bad.

    I would PAY a one time fee for these problems to be permanently fixed.
    (Show downloading/streaming has NEVER worked for me too.. and I would help provide more info, but I tried several times in the past and that never helped. The tivo streamer is *crashing* from what I can tell on a black box basis.)
     
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  20. JoeKustra

    JoeKustra in the other Alabama TCF Club

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    I made a wishlist last year for Comedy Central Programming.
     

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