Add CableCARD = Removed HDMI?

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by Gai-jin, Oct 16, 2007.

  1. Gai-jin

    Gai-jin Active Member

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    Quad City...
    I had my TiVoHD hooked up for the last few days, operating it without a cablecard. The TiVo is connected to the TV via HDMI. I was able to get HD locals and a few other digital channels just fine.

    Tonight, I had cable cards installed, and now get a message that I can't use HDMI with my HD channels, including HD locals because my TV doesn't support HDCP DRM. If I disconnect the HDMI and connect via component, it works fine.

    Why would using a cable card suddenly cause this to kick in? I didn't have guide data for HD locals before, but did have the channels. Is it something in the guide data then that tells the TiVo it can't use HD channels with a non HDCP tv?
     
  2. ah30k

    ah30k Well-Known Member

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    HDCP sets should only be needed to view protected content.

    Your cable provider is probably incorrectly setting the CCI bits on the broadcast channels to copy protected (I forget the actual codes). Use the CableCARD diagnostic screens to see if the CCI bits are set to something other than 0.
     
  3. Gai-jin

    Gai-jin Active Member

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    Quad City...
    I'll check that, I'm still fighting some other issues, so can't look at the moment. However, why would that change based on whether there is a cablecard or not? The cableco is obviously broadcasting the Locals in the clear, as I was able to view them with the tivo before the cablecards were installed. Shouldn't those same protections apply whether there's a cablecard installed or not?
     
  4. Gai-jin

    Gai-jin Active Member

    7,770
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    Quad City...
    Under the 'conditional access' screen in the cablecard menus, I have a listing for CCI: 0x00


    I did have quite a bit of trouble earlier with the cablecards not giving everything they should right away, but it seems to be clearing itself up. I'll do more thorough testing after teleworld paid programming is done recording. At that point, I'll try connecting the hdmi again, with the theory that it might have defaulted to assume protection until it got everything it needed to tell it there was no protection.

    Does that make sense?
     
  5. ah30k

    ah30k Well-Known Member

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    I have no idea now why the HDMI would be cut off after insertion of CableCARDs. Sorry.
     
  6. Joybob

    Joybob New Member

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    Is he hooked up Tivo -> Receiver -> Television or just Tivo -> Television?

    What television is it and what cable co?
     
  7. Gai-jin

    Gai-jin Active Member

    7,770
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    Feb 28, 2000
    Quad City...
    Mediacom cable
    I have Component connections through the receiver to the tv, but the TiVo is hooked to the tv directly via hdmi. (No HDMI on the receiver)

    TV is a toshiba 46h84
     
  8. Revolutionary

    Revolutionary Too sleepy for TV...

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    Virginia
    Something is amiss somewhere. HDCP is built into HDMI: you can't have HDMI that doesn't support HDCP.

    What is the source of error message, the TV or the Tivo? Or the CableCard interface?

    If it's the Tivo, call Tivo for troubleshooting.

    It is also possible that the CableCards are reporting an erroneous CCI error. I would probably start there and call the cable company.
     
  9. ah30k

    ah30k Well-Known Member

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    A simple adapter will allow a HDMI source to display on a DVI TV without HDCP. All non-protected content will play just fine.
     
  10. Roderigo

    Roderigo New Member

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    Brookdale, CA
    Doesn't look like that's true for boxes that support MCards.

    I just took a gander at the CableLabs spec for MCard devices:
    Uni-Directional Cable Product Supporting M-Card: Multiple Profiles
    Conformance Checklist: PICS
    M-UDCP-PICS-I03-070510

    http://www.cablelabs.com/udcp/downloads/M-Host_UNI-DIR-PICS-I03-070510.pdf


    So, devices verified under the MCard rules always need HDCP enabled (regardless of the copy protection setting on the channel). I guess we can thank CableLabs for that one :rolleyes:
     
  11. Gai-jin

    Gai-jin Active Member

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    Quad City...
    It definitely is a Tivo error message, it appeared on one of the blue tivo banners across the bottom of the screen.

    And it was connected HDMI to HDMI, with no adapters or such that might interfere.
     
  12. Revolutionary

    Revolutionary Too sleepy for TV...

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    Virginia
    That's fine, but it's also not what I said. I said that HDCP is built into HDMI. You can't have an HDMI-HDMI connection that doesn't support HDCP -- its not possible. That categorical classification doesn't imply anything about HDMI-DVI adapters.
     
  13. Revolutionary

    Revolutionary Too sleepy for TV...

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    Call Tivo, or use component.
     
  14. sinanju

    sinanju Active Member

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    Sure it's possible. There are old TVs out there that implement HDMI without implementing HDCP. I'm not sure when HDCP came along, but since the TV model in question was added to the Amazon catalog back in 2004, I'd be suspicious.
     
  15. Gai-jin

    Gai-jin Active Member

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    Quad City...
    It is a TV that was originally purchased in 2005. I just inherited it from my Father-in-Law who passed away this summer.
     
  16. Revolutionary

    Revolutionary Too sleepy for TV...

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    Virginia
    You know, I had forgotten that. :eek: HDCP compliance wasn't mandated for HDMI until late last year, but it was used in virtually all CE applications for years before that. But I don't know for sure when that practice became widespread. Perhaps there were CRT models on the market in 2004 that didn't implement HDCP? I guess it's possible.

    But then, why would upgrading to 9.1 suddenly mess up his formerly functional connection if the monitor never supported HDCP to begin with?

    Edit: my bad, got confused. Not 9.1, but cablecards, were added. That likely could be the culprit.
     
  17. michy44

    michy44 New Member

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    Oct 18, 2007
    I have the same issue, but it only started with 9.1. I have disconnected HDMI in favor of component until a newer software version corrects it.

    - Mitch
     
  18. Gai-jin

    Gai-jin Active Member

    7,770
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    Feb 28, 2000
    Quad City...
    I still don't have 9.1, this tivo is running 8.1

    Looks like that is likely the issue... apparently the tivoHD doesn't allow even unprotected digital content out on HDMI w/o HDCP, where the series3 will allow unprotected content out the HDMI, but not protected content.

    http://customersupport.tivo.com/LaunchContent.aspx?CID=347b768c-43e1-4d9c-b369-f7404c6ab500&Basetitle=Hookup&articleTitle=My^DVR^is^Displaying^a^"Viewing^is^Not^Permitted"^Error
     
  19. AbMagFab

    AbMagFab What happened, TiVo?

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    It's not 9.1 that screwed it up, it's the MCARD. That requires HDCP, which his TV doesn't support. Previously, HDCP wasn't required, so it wasn't an issue.
     
  20. Gai-jin

    Gai-jin Active Member

    7,770
    2
    Feb 28, 2000
    Quad City...
    Nope, I don't have an Mcard. 2 S cards.

    The issue must be simply related to tivo recognizing the channels. So long as it was picking up the channels via a scan and not mapping them out as being HD w/ guide data, it didn't care, but now that it's got data on all the channels, it won't output on the hdmi.
     

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