Account Status........ Closed

Discussion in 'TiVo Series 1 - UK' started by babycakes, Jun 4, 2011.

  1. Jun 4, 2011 #1 of 72
    babycakes

    babycakes New Member

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    When the account status is closed, will the Tivo still do manual recordings as if it was an unsubscribed model?
     
  2. Jun 5, 2011 #2 of 72
    steveroe

    steveroe Must do some work...

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    Yes.
     
  3. Jun 5, 2011 #3 of 72
    Pete77

    Pete77 New Member

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    Not Far...
    Alternatively why not visit www.altepg.com then register the Tivo there and do Guided Setup to the AltEPG.

    You now have a Tivo with Account Status 4:Tivo Internal Testing that to all intents and purposes is the same as a Lifetime Subbed Tivo but using a non Tivo provided EPG.

    Of course any of the above is only possible because Tivo have announced the termination of their own official EPG service.
     
  4. Jun 5, 2011 #4 of 72
    babycakes

    babycakes New Member

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    Thanks Pete77

    So if it is possible to change the account status then if Tivo change the account status to closed then can it be changed to Internal Testing?

    Where is the EPG data coming from? Does it originate from Tivo Inc?
     
  5. Jun 5, 2011 #5 of 72
    Pete77

    Pete77 New Member

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    Its probably best to ask more questions on this front over at the discussion forum at www.altepg.com but suffice it to say the AltEPG does not charge for subscriptions so hence any functionally operational UK Series One Tivo can use it. The Account Closed status on a Tivo only means that no subscription is currently in effect with Tivo Inc. Of course we would not have to be deserting Tivo Inc at all if they and their new UK Masters (think dalek or cybermen type masters given their bad behaviour towards UK Tivo S1 owners) had not demanded that we be unilaterally terminated by Tivo.

    It does not originate from Tivo Inc but its best again to ask more about this over on the forums at http://www.tivoland.com/forum

    Suffice it to say that the Tivo you mention should be able to work again as a fully functional Tivo with a proper EPG once the current temporary issue with the AltEPG not having enough dialup phone line capacity has been overcome.
     
  6. Jun 5, 2011 #6 of 72
    Trinitron

    Trinitron New Member

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    Still waiting to see you produce some hard evidence to support these allegations.
     
  7. Jun 5, 2011 #7 of 72
    Pete77

    Pete77 New Member

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    And I'm still waiting for you to produce any hard evidence whatsoever that the S1 UK Tivo service was not shut down at Virgin Media's specific insistence.

    Can I take it that in a corporate environment you are one of those employees who can always be found rushing to protect the decisions of the management team no matter how bizarre or unfair? And if anyone dares to suggest what the motivations of the management team may have been some unjust action you can be heard saying "where is your evidence"?

    Clearly Tivo aren't gong to freely volunteer evidence of having agreed to do something dastardly to their UK S1 customer base for the sake of a larger and more valuable contract with Virgin.

    "No evidence" I hear you bleat again. I must say that if everyone was like you that the ruthless dictators of this world who always do everything to eliminate firm evidence of their misdeeds would really face a very easy time indeed.
     
  8. Jun 5, 2011 #8 of 72
    Steve_K

    Steve_K Member

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    I guess if it walks like a duck, looks like a duck and quacks you'd still assume it isn't a duck unless you see proof then.
     
  9. Jun 5, 2011 #9 of 72
    Pete77

    Pete77 New Member

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    If Tivo were going to cut off service to S1 Tivo owners for cost related reasons they would have done it long ago.

    The idea that if you don't live in a Virgin cabled area that you should no longer have access to Tivo Service and the constant avoidance of even talking about what happens to those of us living outside Virgin Cable land smacks all over of a Virgin inspired and controlled decision.

    If this wasn't the case I would expect some public relations rep of Virgin Media to be only too eager to tell us that the closure of the S1 EPG service is entirely Tivo's own decision and had nothing whatsoever to do with Virgin Media.
     
  10. Trinitron

    Trinitron New Member

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    I'll take that as a no then. :cool:
     
  11. digital_S

    digital_S New Member

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    Not a good thread title! I thought at first that was TiVo getting round to closing our accounts!
    Luckly another day with an active status :) (not yet alt-epg)
     
  12. Steve_K

    Steve_K Member

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    Exactly

    But seems most here are in denial on that. :(
     
  13. TCM2007

    TCM2007 New Member

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    Perhaps they have been wanting to for ages, but have held on because they knew that the VM deal was on the horizon and it would allow some of the loyal TiVo customers to keep a TiVo.

    By that reading, VM was indirectly responsible for several additional years of TiVo service we wouldn't otherwise have got.

    Fits the facts as well as your theory.
     
  14. ericd121

    ericd121 Crown Topper

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    Milton...
    Two points:-

    1. A negative can not be proven.
    2. You made the allegation: you need to provide the proof.
     
  15. Pete77

    Pete77 New Member

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    I made a credible assumption. I never stated it was definite fact either way.

    If Tivo and/or Virgin don't like these assumptions being made and these assumptions are in fact incorrect then it is up to them to show that there is no basis for the assumptions.

    The fact that they don't (given that Tivo have posted in these forums before through TivoPony and TivoJerry when it has suited them to do so) tends to speak volumes in my opinion.
     
  16. TCM2007

    TCM2007 New Member

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    You assume they give a toss what you think...
     
  17. Pete77

    Pete77 New Member

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    I suspect that Virgin don't give a t**s and sadly cared only about making as many sales a as possible of their new Virgin Tivo model.

    However I think Tivo do care and are really somewhat embarrassed about what they have agreed to with Virgin (which probably includes signing a clause that does not allow them to talk to customers about the reasons for the withdrawal of the official UK S1 service). It is for this reason that they have signed am NDA with healeydave giving him critical assurances that have allowed him to become the business coordinator and main website for the AltEPG project. Without those assurances (eg that they will not send out a kill download to non networked unmodified Tivos) I doubt that healeydave would have invested all the time and effort that he has done on the AltEPG project.
     
  18. Steve_K

    Steve_K Member

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    I think TiVo and Virgin do care about their reputation and I suspect they wish they could rewrite some of the last 6 months.

    Maintaining a few servers isn't costing them a lot but their problem is they signed an exclusive deal. You have to believe it was Virgin who insisted on it being an exclusive agreement as the last thing they wanted was to see Sky get their hands on the TiVo label and UI.

    At some point someone at TiVo legal must have realised that the exclusive phrase meant per sethey could no longer deliver to S1 owners. Virgin probably assumed TiVo had a legal way of ending those agreements and TiVo USA probably thought everyone could sign up to Virgin You can almost hear someone say "Gee Walt, Virgin is just like another Sky, they can all move platform"

    So as often happens in life we probably have a **** up rather than a conspiracy. But also what often defines people is more how they react to the unplanned than what they actually plan. Virgin and TiVo have had plenty of time to phone each other and agree a side letter to say the exclusive refers to new contracts so TiVo can continue to provide the S1 service. Again it's not like it costs much after you've already had to pay Tribune for the Virgin EPG service.

    But they haven't done that right thing have they.

    And if either get the plug pulled without getting the agreement of the S1 lifers then both their reputations are going to suffer and both are going to run a risk of legal action for conspiracy. So both might just be contemplating right now quietly buying themselves some time
     
  19. Trinitron

    Trinitron New Member

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    Do you seriously think that many people care outside of the Tivo user community?

    Well I suppose from recent posts, at least three people do. :rolleyes:
     
  20. Pete77

    Pete77 New Member

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    The perverse side of corporate power politics is that the development of a credible self help AltEPG that actually works (leaving aside the capacity teething issues for dialup users) is that it will have made certain people at Tivo and Virgin much more twitchy about turning off the official UK S1 service. And whilst the original S1 service close down campaign clearly ran as planned with all those "we're going to cut you off soon, buy a Virgin Tivo now before its too late" type messages on the planned dates this has been followed by a wholly unexpected continuation of S1 EPG service after June 1st.

    The original corporate bull***t between Virgin and Tivo executives was clearly that the S1 Tivos were old, old, old, and out of date and were only to do with the tv platform of the deadly enemy (aka Sky) and that as the deadly enemy (aka Sky) also ran the customer support the only thing to do was to kill it off.

    Then via all those complaints on their blog the folks in Alviso become aware that 50% of their S1 customers cannot actually upgrade to the Virgin Media Tivo and many are Freeview or Freesat and not Sky customers and are so upset about the closure of S1 service that they threaten to embarrass Tivo by creating their own AltEPG that will even be able to support S1 Tivos in the Virgin Media tv area. Worse than that a whole lot of Status 8 Account Closed boxes may come back in to use because the EPG is now free and so there may even become an active market in selling refurbished S1 Tivos as a result (including HealeyDave's previous scrapheap of never sold and returned under warranty Account Closed Tivos).

    But the AltEPG only has effective permission to keep itself going if Tivo withdraw the official S1 service. So some senior execs at Tivo and Virgin might now think the lesser of two evils is to keep the official S1 service going and to stop a whole bunch more Account Closed Tivos now being sold with free Lifetime EPG at cheap prices that undercut the Virgin Media Tivo in Virgin's own service area.

    Such an outcome would be bad news in PR terms when some journalist gets round to writing about it or when they comment on the AltEPG S1 service in the same breath as they comment on the Virgin Media Tivo. Perhaps its better therefore after all to keep official S1 Tivo service going thereby pulling the rug from the AltEPG and letting the S1 boxes wither away by natural attrition.

    Meanwhile the remaining S1 Tivo owners in Virgin land can all be offered an S4 Tivo Premiere at minimal upgrade cost (lowering their resistance to upgrading) as the Virgin Media Tivo rollout moves on from the early adopter XL only marketing stage and consequently Tivo and Virgin avoids the bad publicity of a rival guerilla self run Tivo service now being actively developed and marketed by the two main Tivo upgrading firms. On further reflection the corporate powers that be at Virgin and Tivo have perhaps begun to realise that once digital switchover is finished in April 2012 and HD Freeview is available everywhere that use of the old S1 Tivo will naturally wither on the vine. Unless that is that user anger at being cut off by Tivo Inc causes the guerrilla AltEPG group to keep their AltEPG Tivos running long term as a protest movement.

    On the other hand healeydave of Tivoland seems to be a party to an NDA with Tivo that tells him that won't happen and that S1 service will definitely be killed off as planned even if it is delayed for a few more weeks while a backlog of Virgin Media Tivo orders that were placed in the last couple of weeks of May by S1 Tivo owners are installed.

    It is really possible to believe that either of the above outcomes are true and that even if the original plan was to definitely kill the S1 Tivo service that various parties at Tivo and Virgin Media will by now be wobbly about the idea. And due to the other issues it faces such as the loss of free 0808 dialup and the AltEPG only having one week of advance data rather than two to three and also losing all the old thumbs data and SPs and Wishlists when you change EPGs they know that if they don't after all pull the official S1 Service that the AltEPG is then in reality dead in the water.

    So perhaps better on reflection to pull back on the termination of official S1 service and continue it as normal whilst reintroducing the £10 per month Service Charge on non Lifetimed units. This ensures the S1 Tivos will slowly wither away on the vine without all the public embarrassment to Virgin and Tivo that the existence of a guerilla AltEPG movement may potentially cause them. On the other hand perhaps the AltEPG movement has come so far that it will now carry on anyway even if Tivo don't pull the official S1 Service and just take the risk of Tivo suing it for infringement of its various patented and propietary aspects of the Tivo service and in particular the loss of all those £10 per month revenue payments.
     

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