6.2 Rollout delayed

Discussion in 'DirecTV TiVo Powered PVRs & Receivers' started by rminsk, Apr 5, 2005.

  1. Apr 8, 2005 #101 of 180
    rminsk

    rminsk TiVoted TiVo User

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    My contacts are personal contacts within DirecTV.

    This is exactly why they rollout the software over a period of months. If they find a problem they can stop the rollout.

    I'm not sure if you know how the rollout process works. There is a database that contains which version of the software each TiVo (by service number) is suppose to be running. During the rollout they choose machines randomly and update the version of the software the machine is suppose to be running in the database. In the test rollout they were doing they would only choose machines randomly in the southern California area. When your machine dails in it ask the server what version am I suppose to be running. If it is running a different version it will first look at local disk cache of the satellite caches to see if it can install it from the local disk. If it is not on the local disk it will download the software and install it. Once a machine software version has been updated in the database it would be very bad to go back to an older version. So once they up the version number of the software for a machine they do not revert an older version. The DirecTiVo usually calls in about every 8 days (maybe even more if you do not have connected to a phone line) so there will be machines that have had there software version updated that have not activated the software for some time.

    If there is a critical problem the machines that requires an emergency fix they could just up the software version in the database for those machines in the database that are suppose to have the bad version. Again they will do this over a few day/weeks/months. Since 6.2 is currently being tested and the bug is not critical to the baisc operation (unlike 3.1.1d) they are just pausing the release and not quickly replacing it.
     
  2. Apr 8, 2005 #102 of 180
    aristoBrat

    aristoBrat Well-Known Member

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    I think he was responding to your post where you said "Once a machine is on the list to receive 6.2 they can not go back."

    I don't think he's arguing the point that once a machine has been upgraded that it can't roll back.

    I think what he's saying is that even if a machine's been "put on the list", as long as they haven't run the upgrade, DirecTV can "remove them from the list" and that machine won't upgrade.
     
  3. Apr 8, 2005 #103 of 180
    aristoBrat

    aristoBrat Well-Known Member

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    Amen.

    I ended up putting it on all of our DTiVos, replacing 4.0.1b. Upgrade didn't require taking the drive out of the TiVo. I lose MVR and HMO but can still TyTools recordings to my PC.

    The speed increase (especially when working with a box that has 30+ Season Passes) was too in-flipping-credible to pass up. When I press SELECT SELECT, the Now Playing Guide pops up instantly, and it can keep up with me paging down through the six screens of shows I have. Even deleting a program is quicker.

    Whatever they did to the "plumbing" in 6.2 is significant, and after having used it, I can see why they might have chosen to skip 4.0 in order to pull this off first.

    Hopefully their plan was to fix the "foundation" first (which 6.2 appears to have done) and then add MRV and HMO features next.
     
  4. Apr 8, 2005 #104 of 180
    rminsk

    rminsk TiVoted TiVo User

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    The problem is that they really do not know the real state of the machine until it calls in. They have an idea of what version it is running based on the last phone call but they can not be sure until the current phone call.
     
  5. Apr 8, 2005 #105 of 180
    bpayne

    bpayne Time Shifting Fool

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    I have been watching all the recent 6.2 threads with something resembling amusement over the past weeks. I've finally decided to register here instead of having people constantly checking my posts at Hometheaterspot and Dbstalk, needlessly driving up their bandwidth.

    Tivoboi, you display a healthy amount of skepticism that I respect. I think it's a little unfair to call you a 'doubting Thomas'. However I would like to point out a couple of minor flaws in your reasoning that there is no delay- granted, I have no vested interest or personal stake in proving you wrong and you are free to believe whatever you want to believe.

    This is absolutely a flawed premise. While logic would suggest that poor processes would dictate the financial success, a lackthereof, of any company- Fortune 500 or no, it simply ignores the fact that a company such as DirecTV is at the mercy of so many other factors that help or hinder service levels that one small software update affecting an almost insignificant number of subscribers would have some sort of quantifiable affect to warrant pulling the 6.2 beta rollout. Using this as a blanket statement is one thing. Using this as a basis to say that a software update has not been delayed is stretching it a bit. Last I checked, Dish Network has put out a lot of software updates for their PVRs. Not all of them have been met with stellar results for their users. The 3.1d update is also a good example of why you shouldn't tie a company's financial success to their ability to make correct tactical decisions in one small area of their end user population. While it would seem like a good observation to make, I will forego making any sort of comparison to the 6.2 beta and Microsoft's 'critical update' methodology. The economies of scale are simply not the same.


    This one is a little more subjective and therefore I cannot simply say, "You're wrong. I'm right, so boo-yah!". All I can simply say is, is that boxes that were scheduled to 'opt-in' (all that implies that it's voluntary, when it clearly is not) under the beta- all of which are in the LA DMA- and haven't done so yet, will continue to do so. My original announcement that the rollout was paused was only regarding the 6.2 rollout to the rest of the subscriber base outside the beta area, not the beta area itself. Perhaps that was unclear, perhaps that was perfectly understood. Whatever. I probably shouldn't have said anything in the first place. Instead of the discussion in this thread, everyone would still be posting in the "6.2 outside L.A. watch"-thread. Now THAT was a productive discussion.
     
  6. Apr 8, 2005 #106 of 180
    pbartman

    pbartman New Member

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    Bpayne please don't withhold any info. It's hard enough to get any tidbit of info from DirectTv. I like to know what's going on even if I don't like the information.

    I want the update as much as everyone else and not knowing what's going on and keeping us in the dark makes people guess. Most of the time the info you see on this board about updates are pure seculation. At least yours was inside information and verry appreciated.
     
  7. Apr 8, 2005 #107 of 180
    aristoBrat

    aristoBrat Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure I understand why the "real state of the machine" has anything to do with pausing the rollout.

    Lets say DTV creates a list of 10,000 DTiVos in LA that it wants to upgrade to 6.2.

    As these machines call in over an 8 day period, they're either sent the command to upgrade (if they have the entire updated staged), or they download the remaining part of the upgrade and are then sent the command to upgrade.

    On day #4, DTV realizes it has a problem and pauses the rollout by not sending the upgrade command to machines as they call in. These machines don't upgrade, even though they're on the list.
     
  8. Apr 8, 2005 #108 of 180
    skinnyjm

    skinnyjm I'm Grumpy???

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    That's a HEAVY DUTY response. :cool:


    This is important to me, since I'm one of the few that think the best thing about DirecTiVo,
    is the ability to manipulate "Live TV" * on 2 different tuners!!!
    *= 30 minutes at a time. :D
     
  9. Apr 9, 2005 #109 of 180
    Cartrivision

    Cartrivision New Member

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    Exactly. If DirecTV wanted to stop all updates to 6.2, it would simply stop giving "update" commands during the call-in, regardless of what "state" the calling machine was in. The reports of 6.2 updates in the last few days doesn't prove that there is no 6.2 rollout pause... maybe they have only paused it for certain models... but if people are still getting update commands during their call-in, it certainly strongly suggests that there is no across the board pause on the 6.2 rollout. It makes absolutely no sense to say that DTV would not be able to stop a software rollout instantly if it wanted to, regardless if some receivers were already scheduled to get update commands on their next call-in. They control what happens during the call-in.
     
  10. Apr 9, 2005 #110 of 180
    TeeSee

    TeeSee Tiiin ROOF. Rusted!

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    I once bought a car that I chose to be painted silver. Before it was scheduled to be built I changed my mind and called the dealership and asked for it to be painted black. But they said it simply couldn't be done. Once the order was through that was it, even though there were weeks before it was scheduled to be built at the plant. So they ended up building two cars. One silver, one black. I bought the black one and the silver one was added to the dealership's on site inventory. Sometimes it's amazing how difficult the seemingly easy things are. Especially with computers. You would think all they had to do was to send the command to cancel the silver car.
     
  11. Apr 9, 2005 #111 of 180
  12. Apr 9, 2005 #112 of 180
    tivoboi

    tivoboi rminsk fact-checker

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    What you have is somebody who claims to have inside information while, all around you, evidence points to something otherwise.

    So, iwanTIVO, if you continue to believe that 6.2 is paused, "go and tell my brothers and go to Galilee; there they will see me."
     
  13. Apr 9, 2005 #113 of 180
    tivoboi

    tivoboi rminsk fact-checker

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    That's exactly my point. They have the ability to stop the rollout at any point in time. So, if the rollout was stopped, we wouldn't be seeing threads like this as early as this morning:

    http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=234335

    I'm an executive that's responsible for producing software for a Fortune 500 company. I have a good understanding of how software upgrades transpire.

    No argument here.

    Exactly. And if I am DirecTV with a bad software upgrade on my hands, that server would be saying, "you know what, we were going to have you running version 6.2, but since there's some problems, why don't you stick with what you have for right now. Call me in about a week and maybe I'll tell you something different."

    ...but only if the server has told the machine that it should be running a different version. Which is where you and I disagree. You seem to think that once DirecTV decides somebody should be running 6.2, there is no way that they can change that decision. I say that that is utter nonsense. DirecTV can decide -- at the moment your machine dials in -- what software version you should be using. Not what software it thought you should have been using a week ago.

    Believe me, if there was a serious issue that would impact the cost of DirecTV's service model (in the call center industry, we all this the "Service Level"), that issue would be shut down cold.

    Doubtful. If I know version 6.2 is going to cause me a support headache, I'm going to update my distribution mechanism so nobody gets version 6.2 until I'm ready for them to receive it.

    Yes, but the machines have no idea what software version they are supposed to be using. The DirecTV server tells the receiver which software version it's supposed to be using when the receiver dials in. If there was indeed a "pause" to the rollout, then DirecTV wouldn't be upgrading any machines. Why would you risk upsetting customers when you don't have to?

    At any rate, it's clear that the "rollout has been paused" is clearly debunked. Here we are, days later, and people are still receiving the version 6.2 software.
     
  14. Apr 9, 2005 #114 of 180
    Josh

    Josh New Member

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    heh... this is fun to watch! Certainly more fun than forcing endless daily calls on my R10!
    i can't quite figure out why this "it's paused", "no it's not" debate is getting so heated, but at least it's keeping the rest of us amused with the endless pseudo-logic and strained analogies.

    keep it up guys, we've got nothing better to do since the software is delayed. or is it?
     
  15. Apr 9, 2005 #115 of 180
    jimpilot

    jimpilot New Member

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    I notice no one outside of SoCal has received the update even though it was (according to this forum) to start going out on 7 April. I guess that gives creditability to the pause theory.

    Of course those guys who really killed Kennedy may have stolen it. :)
     
  16. Apr 9, 2005 #116 of 180
    TeeSee

    TeeSee Tiiin ROOF. Rusted!

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    Isn't it? Every time someone demands their opinion is a fact I can't help but pull up a chair and watch them implode because they aren't getting the "You're right, I'm wrong" they apparantly need.

    Tivoboi, did you know that the stars in the sky aren't really there anymore? They died millions of years ago yet we still "download" the light from them every night. ;)
     
  17. Apr 9, 2005 #117 of 180
    aristoBrat

    aristoBrat Well-Known Member

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    If you want a car analogy that fits this thread, try this:

    GMC sends a recall notice to 100,000 cars telling them to make an appointment with their local dealer to have a defective part replaced.

    10 days into the recall, GMC finds out that the part they're replacing the defective part is also defective, so the pause the recall, telling dealers to stop.

    If you're on the list of cars in the recall and your appt was made for the 11th day or later, your dealer calls and cancels your appt.

    Even though your car was on the list, it wasn't touched after the recall was pused.
     
  18. Apr 9, 2005 #118 of 180
    jimpilot

    jimpilot New Member

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    Guys
    Everyone is offering their opinion, I don't think anyone knows. And you know what they say, Opinions are like rear ends, everyone has one and they all stink.

    Until someone reports a download outside the SoCal area I won't have a chance of getting it, so rather it is paused or not, I have to wait.
     
  19. Apr 9, 2005 #119 of 180
    CrazyFred

    CrazyFred New Member

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    No one outside of So. Cal has 6.2 unless they are either

    1) Lying

    2) Beta testing for TiVo or Directv

    3) Hacked it

    6.2 will go out to the rest of the nation when Directv and TiVo feel it is ready to go to those users.
     
  20. Apr 9, 2005 #120 of 180
    aristoBrat

    aristoBrat Well-Known Member

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    I went with option #3 and have a house full of happy campers. :)
     

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